SB or BB, seriously guys...

[Coupster]

I'm attempting to decide on BB vs. SB for a pending Superformance purchase. I simply can't decide. As far as I'm aware the main pros/cons (+/-) of each is as follows - pls correct me if I'm wrong or if I've missed something. The two engines I'm considering are (a) a new 460 crate, or (b) a new 351 stroked to 396.

BB:
* Sound - deeper rumble (+)
* Acceleration / torque (+)
* Authenticity (given that 427 was BB, kinda) (+)
* Bragging rights (+)
* Fuel consumption/running costs (-)
* Weight (-)
* Overall handling (cornering ability, braking) (-)
* Cost (marginally more expensive than new SB unit)
* Difficult/ expensive to meet emissions standards if registered as a new car - i.e. by engine age vs. body style (-)
* Higher insurance premium (potentially) (-)
* Driveability/fun (?)

On a relative basis, the SB pros and cons are effectively the opposite of the above. Of course you can get blistering performance from a stroked SB, or even a 'regular' 351 SB - I'm speaking in purely relative terms.

By the way, if anyone is interested in renting a Superformance Cobra next time you're in Las Vegas, give Rent-a-Vette a call. Just returned from a business trip, and spent Saturday in the SPF (SB 351 with 385hp if you're wondering). FANTASTIC car - even with over 15,000 miles on the clock. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Thanks in advance guys - you're expertise/insight is much appreciated!

[Jahred]

Ya know? I think its really all in your EGO. If its gonna bug ya later, get the big block. I have a 514. It is perfectly driveable........though I admit your a ways out before you really put the foot to the floor......

I can't imagine there is much wrong with a good 351Windsor.

But will you or won't you second guess yourself. If you are committed and happy with a SB, that's a great choice.

I could be wrong, but I think the one overplayed issue you mention is the weight. You can still get to 50/50 with a solid frame and rear end.....and with aluminum heads and manifold I question whether the big block handles much differently.

I think where the handling issue comes in is that you have to feather the pedal more in and out of turns and its harder to gauge and there is more risk of spinout. More often with a SB, you can just floor it and you might be ok, while the guy in the big block is trying to find the traction line..........and may come up short or long................

Then again with the big block, with all that torque....it is probably easier to flip the back end more abruptly if you need to in a given situation..............

[Bumpster]

Coupster - My personal preference is a big block in a 427 body and a small block in a slabside or an FIA body, which is what I am building. The BB vs. SB debate has been done to death all over this forum. Get what you want when you build the car and you won't be second-guessing yourself later. Get exactly the car you want, that you can afford, and please yourself first. If other people like it, that's fine. Satisfaction is what these cars are about.

Bumpster

[BANDIT 1]

Big Block, period!

[BlueRooster]

I was undecided for a while. Then it hit me. The nose on the 427 is the Cobra that I fell in love with as a kid. Why would I want to put a SB in one. You put a BB in a 427, and so I bought one. The thing is very well mannered on the street and I am happy with my decision. I know that I cant throw it into turn #1 as fast as a SB, but if I want to do that Ill buy a FIA. On the other hand...who cares what I think, build what makes you happy.

Dane

[Back in Black]

BB

Oh, and with my 514 and West Coast, the balance is 50/50.. no reason to drive it any slower than any sb

[CSX 4039]

I have a 550hp 427 stroked with dual carbs, Shelby headers, etc. etc., and I recommend----

SMALL BLOCK

What the hell are you going to do with all that horsepower?
Shelby won races with a small block, and you're going to go for a Sunday drive. I cannot possibly extract even 50% of the potential of my car on public roads. Can't go fast enough, and if I use all that horsepower at slow speeds, I'll be buying new tires in 3 minutes. Get a small block for all the reasons outlined above.

[Jim Werth]

Isn't a 460 alot heavier than a 427? Jim

[Mark Husar]

I have a 396 stroker and just cannot use all the power I have. The back end gets squirrely on launch, the roads we drive on are not worth a sh!t when i'm over 120 and the close ratio 4 speed maxes out at 130. I really don't see the use of a big block unless u play at the drags. I am perfectly happy with the small block.

[KobraKarl]

It makes absolutly NO difference ,you can have Bretts 550hp sb or a modest 400hp BB..........SO!!!! ............OF COURSE.....get an FE !!

[joea]

GET A SMALL BLOCK....that will make MY big block that much cooler when people check out my car after yours

[Tom Wells]

Hi Coupster,

Voice of experience here.

new 460 crate

DON'T get one of these from Ford

Whichever engine size you select, go with a builder who stands behind their product, not a junk & garbage supplier with no warrany such as Ford Their defective parts and assembly cost me an extra $2800 after 812 miles of gentle street use. Ford's response: "no warranty".

Having made that point, I now have 6000 miles on my 521 and have enjoyed them all since the engine was repaired Nothing sounds better than the idle, except maybe the sound when you do get to open the secondaries a bit!

Tom

[bnewell]

ditto what Tom & Jahred just said........spend the extra bucks and get a custom built motor. Nothing worse than buying the SB and in a few months wish you had gone with the BB. I know several owners who did just that and are kicking themselves in the butt now.

Brian

p.s. no one needs 600+ hp......but it sure is fun

[BANDIT 1]

Big Block!

[frankym]

The first cobra I bought had to have a big block. I bought a shell valley with a 427 center oiler. I was told it had 500hp but that's my own damn fault for believing a claim like that. Hell, attached to a 2500 pound car, it didn't seem out of the question after you get pinned to the back of the seat. Of course, after fixing the rest of the car, and then fixing it some more, it was plainly a tame rebuild. It was a pretty stock motor after all was said and done, and that was fine. I now own a superformance with the 396 SB windsor. Here are my personal opinions. The BB has a lot of low end torque, that, in a lite car, really doesn't help cornering, although it does keep the front end down. On my BB, and this is not the case for all BB by any stretch, after 3000 RPM, you really had to shift because the torque/HP curve was less enthralling than the rise to 3000. On the stroked SB, the power curve is beautiful, it pulls from idle to 7k rpm, it's got a nascar like scream to it. 396 vs 427 is not that different in terms of displacement, and the only thing I have found to be a negative on the SB issue is that the cobra will tend to feel a little lite up front, and that will take some getting used to. On a track, that tendancy might lead the car out of a turn if the front end is climbing in the turn. Go with what you want. I chose the stroker only because I didn't want to outgrow the 385hp. I spoke to Doug Reed last year and he said the 351/385 is plenty fast, great combo, but depending on how often you drive your cobra, eventually you'll become very comfortable with the driveability of it, and then might decide later that you want more power. I did come across the FFR article that promoted the 460's love for higher RPMs but never drove one. Talking to a former race car builder, he seemed pretty non-plused about the lincoln 460 block, loved the FE, hated the 406? and hadn't had a lot of experience with the small blocks. Funny how everyone says this is a dead horse issue, but it never stops people from chiming in! One thing I would say is that which ever motor you choose, make sure you build adequate cooling, and for god's sake, get a good puke tank, it just looks a little homade with an in-line hose filler for the water inlet. This is just my opinion, nothing more, it's mostly cosmetic, but the thing I love most about the SPF is how the parts were intended to fit together, from the custom cooling fans with custom channeled shroud and matching radiator, to those magical headers and simply perfect plumbing. Everything you need and nothing you don't. I don't know of any other cobra that has the engineered cooling setup with a custom made shroud, it makes a huge difference.

good choice in SPF, and if you look at the statistics, there are a small number of BBs as a percentage of all SPFs sold, so you can't get hurt. I say this because most ERAs get suited with BBs, so it's more of a valuation/resale issue on ERAs, again JMO.

fm

[Tommy]

Given the excessive, over-the-top nature of these cars, if I were building one from the start, I'd go with an excessive, over-the-top engine too.

[Ron61]

The above replies are right on the button. The final decision is what you like best. I have both and for some things the big block is more impressive but I really prefer the stroked small block for driving and running hard on corners. And it is so overpowered that the first two gears are worthless when coming out of a corner. The weight issue really isn't that big of a thing any more with the aluminum heads and blocks and etc.

Ron

[BANDIT 1]

This is a very similar issue I dealt with over deciding between a Suzuki GSXR-1000 or Suzuki GSX-1300R "Hayabusa" (the worlds fastest production motorcycle). I heard the same old thing, "the smaller bike is better in the corners". I don't know about you all, but my days of flying through corners on the street are long gone. Once in for all (and quote me), 90% of all Cobra's may see the track only from the parking lot, they might go there once and actually go on the track.

The Hayabusa is a great example of our discussion, believe me when I say it can corner pretty damn good (not as good as the smaller bike, but I would like to live another day). From a 45 - 65 "punch" the Hayabusa will beat the smaller bike and have a greater top speed. It is also very stable on the highway.

Every time I have been asked "is it a 427" and I say "no, it's a 520 ci. big block", the persons eyes light up. I have NEVER heard anyone say, "damn, I was hoping it was a small block!".

Every time I have heard someone ask "is it a 427" and the owner says "no. it's a small block stroker", the reaction is always "oh".

They call it a 427 S/C Cobra for a reason, it must have a big block. If you want to race, call the Olthoffs and go with the small block.

Big Blocks are about "putting the power to the ground", my car for example can run a P325/50R15 tire and get traction pretty damn good.

By the way, the 429/460 engine is 10 times better than a 427 engine. Just because it cost more doesn't mean it is better. The one gentlemans friend that said the 460 "lincoln" block is bad, get real. The 427 engine was only "factory" raced for a very short time, the 429/460 engine has been the Ford "big block" of choice for over 30 years. It has been in Nascar/Pro STock/Monster Trucks/Drag Boats/etc...it has been the Ford big block put in the most by drag racers (everything from old Mustangs to Ford Fairmonts). Ask any engine builder (that is not brainwashed by the Cobra "has to have a 427 S.O. in it" and they will tell you the 427 is a bad choice).

These are all just my opinions, whatever someone's Cobra has in it (other than a Chevy engine) is fine. But people, a myth is a myth!

[Back in Black]

With his Ford crate motor. But most of these motors are just are reliably built as any good basic builder would do for you. And the price is generally much better. It seems that Ford has fixed the specific issues that Tom's motor had. I did have to change the dipstick to a billet system because the one that came with the motor was basically for 1/4 mile running and not for street use. And I had to add a PCV system, but any rebuilt motor may need this. A big consideration MUST also be your transmission/clutch/rear end type & quality. Most stock or standard modern donor systems cannot handle the HP/torque of the more powerful motors (400+ HP )
Now if you have the time, knowledge of the builder (such as Southern or several others lauded here on CC in personal recommendations) then go with the aftermarket builder. When I replace my current 514 Ford crate motor, it will be with a "special" from someplace like Southern. Something with MORE horsepower.. can I put it to the road? You bet.. only not off the line or in slower or tricky corners. But even my 600 HP can be fully used, if one has the "knack" for such things. Admittedly most do not. That's life.

[rdorman]

This topic has been gone over is great length. If after reading the hundreds of posts on this topic you have not reached a decision, flip a coin

Thanks

Rick