4 bolt main question?

[southernfriedcj]

I looking at the roush 402R 351 stroker motor. It makes 525 hp/500 'lbs torque. The motor comes with a 2 bolt main FMS block. Would the extra $1,500. for a Dart 4 bolt main block be a wise investment? I figure the boys at Roush know a lot more about performance engines than I do, but the 2 bolt mains are a concern.
Waddaya think?

[John A. Simpson]

Hi guy!

I have the same concern and the same question (does that send shivers up your spine?), maybe I can ask my engine builder and see what he says. I know he says too much horsepower can take the fun OUT of your car. Too hard to hook up and even have a good time. I think I'll just build a 351 of about 450hp thru the mufflers.
I want a car like yours so bad my teeth hurt, either that or I need to floss.

John

[Mr.Fixit]

No, use your money where it will matter. A 500 hp windsor is just fine in a 2-bolt factory block, just use ARP main studs and have the mains align-honed. Use that money on H-beam rods, a good crank and good pistons, they matter more.

[Back in Black]

Best one I have heard this month

[Mr.Fixit]

Really too much HP can take some fun out of a car. Loss of drivability often comes with more power. The motor becomes much more tempermental, requires spinning it up to ungodly RPM's to get into the powerband, drinks race gas at alarming rates. Not that there is some threshold HP#, but when the specific power output of a motor goes up, often the fun factor starts to nosedive after a certain point. If you don't mind the tempermental, than that extra little bit of power yopu can't even use may be worth all the exra effort. A poor analogy I like to make is pretty girls. Dating a supermodel is probubly such a pain in the a$$ due to their giant egos and such, I would rather date a pretty girl that is pleasant that a b*tchy supermodel, even though she's not as "hot" The more of a pain something is to deal with, the less fun it becomes

[Back in Black]

If you are referring to such things as :

Very high compression

Radical cam profile

Blowers/Turbos



This is why I went with the massive 514. Mild compression/reliable big torque/HP, yet with that "super model" idle
It is a pleasure to drive and I cannot imagine this car in particular with less HP or torque being nearly as much fun. And in fact it has massive bottom end torque and power so I don't have to rev it much at all in normal driving. In fact it's all too easy to let it get carboned up by not revving it.

[Jack21]

Go with Mr. Fixit's advice. Use ARP studs on your Windsor 2 bolt. There is a set of Milodon center 3 caps that could be used, but not sure it would be worth it. Spend the money on the crank, rods, and pistons.

Same with advice on females. The mousy ones are always the hottest between the sheets, and easiest to live with.

[southernfriedcj]

John, maybe we could make a swap. A week of Idaho hunting for a week of Kirkham driving.
Fixit and Jack, thanks for the advice.
BiB, what #'s is your 514 making?

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally posted by Back in Black


In fact it's all too easy to let it get carboned up by not revving it.

B&B.

Please note Mr. Fixits post. Carboning up or loading up is tempermental as well.

You see, too much is just that, Think about it. If it has too much power, then you cannot even clean the thing out in normal use.

B&B Note: Not jacking you around here. Just making a point. Excess always has its price.

[A Snake]

Bench racing is fun isn't it?

Seriously, I keep reading these posts about giant engines and mega hp numbers in 2300# cars and am constantly amazed by it.

Why in heck build all that power and not be able use it? Yeah it's nice to say mine's bigger 'n yours, but less than 1% of the people who own any kind of Cobra car whether real or replica has the ability and skill to handle the car under heavy throttle with even a modest 400hp engine.

Drag racing? Sure if the car will hook up and launch, but any other use is tempting fate to the extreme.

After all of this and I've wanted to get it out of my system for quite a while now... unless the owner is going to freewind the engine in his driveway, just to watch the tach needle go past 8 grand, a decent 2 bolt block is more than adequate. Trick pistons? Trick rods? Trick crank? Only if you just like to spend money. 450 reliable hp can be produced using pretty modestly priced parts.

The long and short of this diatribe, is that to me it makes no sense to put NASCAR parts in a street engine. Did I mention that engines built to these levels use a lot of oil, foul spark plugs, start hard when warm and load up when sitting idling?

A last thought. The original 427 cars and for that matter 289 cars, were pretty darned quick, just as they were. Quick enough I might add, that not only did they win lots of races, but were more than a handful to drive.....even for experienced race car drivers. More is not better here......it's just plain silly.

Sorry for the blather

Al

[Jack21]

Think of it as a "Right of Passage". You read it here. And you read it virtually in every automotive enthusiast publication. Virtually everyone who first starts tinkering with cars for more power (Hot Rodding) will go through this process. No matter how much the folks who have been there and done that advise, "Don't do that, you won't be happy with the results", it always falls on deaf ears.

And it always seems to be the same formula. Too much motor, not enough brakes, suspension, and cooling system, as well as attention to other details.

Folks that have been building cars and engines for a few years have learned through experience what works, and what doesn't work for them (or their customers).

Perhaps the most difficult part of a Cobra, or any other car project is defining what you want, and don't want the finished product to do, or be. And, realistically, how you intend to drive it. Once realistic goals have been identified, and defined, (and refined), and you build accordingly; your car should be a pleasure rather than a monster.

[Great Asp]

The Roush 402R motor is good to go with the 2 bolts mains. It is a sweet motor too!

Eric

[TomH]

Roush also warrants their (2-bolt main) motors.

[Carnut427]

Too much is just enough.

Dan

[Back in Black]

I happen to be very happy with the power level I currently have, no regrets at all, and might even want a more powerful motor next time. a short highway run or a bit of harder running clears her right out. The reason for the easy running is my local surface street LE rich environs. (any more is a cop caller, and they all like me now cause I don't) And that the motor is brand new. Also my West Coast weighs about 2900 lbs, not 2300 (few cobras weigh 2300 actually, from what I have read)

Southernfriedcj, I have not had her on a dyno yet, still running the carb. When I install the EFI and then we will know....

By the way jack, I have enough power cross-drilled vented brakes, top quality tunable suspension, and just about everything else . Not everyone with a monster motor cobra is a shmoe beginner. In fact I suspect many or most are the opposite.