351 Intake Manifold

tdsmith · #1 (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 12:14 AM

I jsut bought a Used Superformance. I love it, but I'm thinking about making a few changes.

The engine (351W) currently has an Edelbrock Victor Jr. on it. From my reading, it sounds like this manifold is best from 3500 to 8500 RPM. That's great for road racing and sustained speeds. However, I'm looking at more of a drag racing set up for club grudge matches and such. I'm thinking about the Edelbrock Performer RPM, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know of a good manifold for idel to 6000 response. Basically, I need to get the car as quick as I can. I don't have enough experience with different manifolds to know which is best.

T

Jack21 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-04-2003, 02:13 PM

Edelbrock Performer RPM will give you exactly what you want, where you want it. If you're interested in drag racing, and don't drive the car in cold weather, the new Edelbrock air gap Performer RPM may be even a better choice. Just keep in mind, the entire package has to work together as a system; heads, intake, ignition, carb, exhaust. Even (as I recently found out) the wrong air cleaner can hurt your performance.

If I were building a really kick-a$$, mid - high 10's car, I'd go with the 393W stroker, AR205's w/2.08 intakes, hydraulic roller cam (224/234) Ede air gap, and a Demon 750DP. Set the rev limiter for 6200, and go racing.

tdsmith · #3 (**permalink**) 07-05-2003, 09:53 AM

Stoking the enigine is on my wish list for this fall/winter. Since I just got it I want to drive it a little bit first. Then, when the weather turns cold (I live in Colorado) I'll pull the engine for some real work.

I think the engine as it sets is set up pretty nice. It was built by dean Woodruff in 2000. It's what he calls his Stage 3. It has Edilbrock Aluminum heads, Custom ground cam, hidrolic lifters, MDS 6AL, and a Holley 750 DP with VAC. I think it will handle the different intake pritty well. I just want to shift to the lower RPMs.

Are there any intakes I should consider other than Edelbrock?

T

Jim Downard · #4 (**permalink**) 07-05-2003, 02:07 PM

I've got a 393 stroker and I just had it dyno'd at the spring fling. It's got a comp. cams cam. I can't remember the part number now, but it's got .541 lift intake, .544 lift exh. Duration @ .050 is 246 degrees. Heads are Cast Iron ( you read it right, not Aluminum) Roush 200's. They have the 2.02 intakes and in my mind cast iron = virtually bulletproof. I have the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and a 700 cfm Edelbrock carb. Out of the box, the Edelbrock carb is jetted spot on. I could possibly go 1 step leaner on the main jet, but I'll leave it alone for when it gets cooler. I've got 3.55 rears which will affect hp on a chasis dyno. I start making 350 lb ft torque at 2600 rpm and it stays above 350 until 5250 rpm. Peak torque is 398 while it pretty much runs at 380 from 2900 rpm to 4500 rpm. Horsepower is very linear with no flat spots and peak rwhp of 360 is at 5500 rpm. This is a very basic motor with stock rods and Keith Black pistons. C/R is about 9.2/1. Check the rpm range for your cam first and if it's near the 1500-6500 range go with the Edelbrock RPM. In addition, the Edelbrock pro-flo air cleaner (tri-oval in shape) has NO RESTRICTION below 1000 cfm. My dyno runs proved it.

Best of luck,

Jim Downard

milner351 · #5 (**permalink**) 09-16-2003, 12:38 PM

You guys are right on.
I still can't figure out why ford racing puts "high rpm only" intakes on the crate engines, but to make that magical HP number for the catalogue.
My buddy Dalola pulled the 460 open plenum off his classic roadsters and replaced it with a dual plane... HELLO TORQUE!
I would say from the port geometry and some desktop dyno runs, that the performer rpm or rpm air gap are the way to go, don't forget to check hood clearance.

and

IF ANYONE HAS A 351W VICTOR JUNIOR FOR SALE LET ME KNOW!!
That's the one I need for my 3500 stall '69 mustang drag car!!!

Samurai · #6 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 05:51 PM

Hey tdsmith

I have a Stage 3 HOC motor like you, built by Dean Woodruff. The only difference is that I'm running a hydralic roller cam and the Performer RPM intake. I had difficulties getting clearance on both the Performer RPM Air-Gap intake and Victor Jr intake.

The Performer RPM will make the car alittle more drivable. I do believe you do give up some HP above 5500rpm due to the dual plane being more restrictive than a single plane.

Samurai

perana · #7 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 05:59 PM

similar to rpm air gap ===> funnel web intake manifold ....some company in Aussie makes 'em details provided if anyone interested

Curt C. · #8 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 07:28 PM

Guess I will be the dissenter here to some extent. I have the 351W crate motor with AFR 185 heads and Vic Jr. intake. Makes peak power at 5800 rpm - 377 RWHP. RWTQ is 353 at 5,000 RPM. Thats not too high of an RPM is it? I have tried to stay away from the Air Gap etc. I figure it will just give me even more low end torque thus blowing the tires off even more than it does with the Vic Jr. Our cars are so light, they are easy to move. Idles at 850 and streetablility is good enough for me. BTW, the Victor Jr. is a great drag racing intake. Most of the Ford drag race carbed combos run this or the Super Victor. They shift at 6500 rpm or higher though too.

TerribleTed13 · #9 (**permalink**) 09-17-2003, 11:48 PM

tdsmith,
I'm in Aurora CO. with the same kind of ideas. My engine is supposed to be a stage two 351w. I'm looking/considering the 396 or 408 from the engine factory. My girlfriend just got a "95 Viper RT-10(yellow)we can't have the new beating up on the old school! I ran at Bandimere and could not get through the 60 ft mark without spinning/smoking the tires. Slicks are the answer!
But for me the1/4 mile dosen't yank my crank anymore!Sex takes longer than that!No offense!! To each thier own. Are you in the Mile Hi Cobra Club??Branden seems to be at Bandimere for all the club clashes.By the way whats the ignition timing set at??Want 1/4 mile stuff only, rearend gears and an auto trans will do it!I found out the front end/steering gos away at about 160 mph!So now I stay under 150 mph.Air dams and spoilers look funny on a COBRA.Just my $.02 worth.

Mr.Fixit · #10 (**permalink**) 09-18-2003, 08:47 AM

TDSMITH,
Leave the vic jr. on there. You will not notice an improvent significant enough to warrant the purchase, just put that $200 towards the 418 stroker bottom end. These little cars are so light, with enough gearing, that you don't spend enough time below 2500 rpm to matter much.

HighPlainsDrifter · #11 (**permalink**) 09-18-2003, 10:47 PM

Hi,
You have a hydraulic cam so the RPM range will be limited to about 6,000 rpm. That means your 8,500 RPM manifold is mismatched to your cam, get the Edelbrock RPM manifold. Yes it makes a difference you can feel and measure at the track. You have a street car, not a drag car so you launch at a much lower RPM. You can expect a 2 to 4 tenths quicker ET with the dual plane manifold for you application, and much better throttle response.
Perry.

BlackBDR · #12 (**permalink**) 09-19-2003, 11:01 PM

TDSmith,

I bought a Cobra from a show with a 351W that was already set up with a Victor Jr intake. It also had Victor Jr. heads, a pretty lumpy cam (will not idle under 1000 rpm), a Holley 750 double pumper, and a MSD pro billet distributor.

The car, exhibited very poor driveability, and the vacumn signal was so low from the small vacumn port on the Holley that with the radical cam the power brakes were very scarey.

I've since had the manifold changed to an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap and the car has totally transformed. Not only does drive better there's a vacumn port on the RPM that wasn't available on the Victor Jr.

I think the RPM Air Gap even looks better than the Victor Jr. with 8 individual runners vs. the webs that paired runners on the Victor Jr.

You may want to ask the SPF guys if an Air Gap will fit, they are very tall. It fits fine in my BDR with a 3" tall, 14" diameter K&N. I've seen a 351W in a SPF with the "oval" Cobra filter and the non air gap Performer RPM (much shorter) and he had to do some fitting to make it work.

Samurai - If you haven't found a 351W Victor Jr. yet and you'd be interested in a perfect one with only 600 miles on it let me know.

John

Jack21 · #13 (**permalink**) 09-20-2003, 01:12 PM

Aanybody here ever try a Weiand Stealth intake? Everybody just seems to go with Edelbrock and Holley when somebody thinks, "I wonder!" And it works even better (like Demon carbs).

ColoradoCobras. · #14 (**permalink**) 09-22-2003, 04:51 PM

T
We at S & S in Denver have been using Blue Thunder Intakes on 351's in Mustangs to great success. But...We are 5,280 feet and like us, you will tire of dialing for altitude, temperature and humidity changes to meet Drag Track condiditons. Come visit our shop near Parker Road and Iliff and see our Momar Fuel Injected Shelby Cobra Replicar here at the shop.
Let Carl Wade tell you about the "all power, no loss and no adjustments" from Lo-Do to Mt Evans and back!
www.ColoradoCobras.com

GT Rosema · #15 (**permalink**) 10-05-2003, 09:20 AM

Speaking of intakes was there ever a dual four barrel 351w intake? or is there some kind of spacer or adapter to use the 302 intake? I have a 390 with an old eldelbrock dual plane dual 4 barrel intake and it has impressed me. No bog just gets up and moves.

John A. Simpson · #16 (**permalink**) 10-05-2003, 09:58 PM

What are your cam specs, that sounds like a strong 351!

Curt C. · #17 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 01:09 AM

520 / 538 lift; 236 / 246 duration. AFR 185 58cc heads really woke it up

flatliner · #18 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 11:33 AM

tdsmith, Hey you should be launching at over 3500 RPM on a drag strip. Anyway, I have a stroked 351w with a single plane Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake and Victor Jr. heads Hyd. roller cam ect. and I have no problem driving around town or any other low speed stuff. I have even been in 4 parades this year, one where I had the high-school homecoming king and queen sitting on the back deck! These strokers make so much torque that low end is not compromised by a single plane intake manifold. Your biggest problem at the track will be getting these cars to hook-up. When they do hookup, they launch with a great deal of vigor.
hope this helps, flatliner