best cam, heads, and intake.....??

[decobraman]

Hey all!

I currently own a CMC Cobra. It has a 5.0 Ford small block H.O. As of now, it has a Holly 650 CFM 4-barrel carb and Edelbrock intake.

This winter, I want me and my son to work on it more, get some more HP. So, I got some questions.

First, what would be th best cam for it. We plan on doing drag racing, but mostly street cruising (i.e about 70% of the time). Right now it has the roller cam stock with Mustangs. No worries about emissions or smog testing. I need something with a high redline, and good low end power, that doesn't slack off too much at higher RPMS. I use mainly 94-99 octane fuel. I also have Klotz fuel additive in it now. It also has to work well with stock heads.

That leads to my second question. Where can I find cheap heads. My wife doesn't want me spending more than 1200 for all this. So a 250 dollar cam and 250 dollar intake only leaves me with 700 or so. Any that cheap with performance improvements? I was looking at Edelbrock heads, but they are 540 a piece. Just a little too much.

Speaking of intakes...what would be the best? After all, heads and a new cam needs better breathing. The Edelbrock I have now isn't bad, but I'd like better.

Lastly, should I change the ocker arms or pushrods while I'm at it?

Also, lastly,

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Hi,
You should keep to engineered air intake such as the Ford GT-40 "P" heads under $600/pair, motorsport "F" cam $190, edelbrock RPM dual plane intake $155. Summit racing carries all this stuff. Should make an honest 80 HP and know it works, Ford's R&D spends millions to make sure it does.Should make power from 2,000 to 6,500 rpm.
Have fun, just make sure you put the head gaskets on with the 'front' stamped on them to the front or the engine will overheat. Also the short headbolts go through a water passage and need thread sealer on them.
Perry.

[6T5 Cbra]

The local speed shop here has what appears to be a good deal on a set of Ford Racing GT-40 / Y303 aluminum heads. Only $825.00/pair complete (not bare).

Check them out here Hawaii Racing



Gene

[fxbill]

Motorsport B303 or E303 roller cam....under $200....big bang for the buck.....Stay away from the F303...it's a supercharger cam and not ground for normally aspired engines. Edelbrock Performer RPM or Weiand Stealth manifold...decent low end and strong all the way to 7000RPM...under $200...( check for hood clearance depending on what air cleaner you have.....mine was tight...).. Edelbrock 1407 750CFM carb...Simple and effective...$220 or $175 factory rebuilt on Ebay. Motorcraft windage tray....about $60 and good for around 15-20 hp..
That's about $650...You can find GT40 heads on Ebay for around $500-$550 or buy a new set of Roush 180 or 200 heads for around $800....all in all not too far from what you're wanting to spend, but an awful lot of horsepower gain.
Regards,
Bill
PS...That's a good deal on GT40 heads from Hawaii Racing!

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Hi,
The B cam makes good power to 5,500 rpm, the E cam will rev to 6,000 but is slower by 2 tenths at the track as it "is" the blower cam. The B cam was also faster with my paxton than the E cam.
Perry.

[fxbill]

I ran both cams as well, but the B303 needs to be run with 1.7/1 rocker arms instead of the stock 1.6/1. The lift is quite a bit less than the E303 although the duration and overlap is more than the E303. Out of all the Ford racing cams the E303 is the only street "legal" and emission approved cams. Streetability on the E cam is better as the torque peaks at around 2500RPM..better for cruising than the 3300 peak of the B cam. Personally I'd prefer the E cam for all around driving..

[avanti-176]

Street racing 70% of the time means there is a good chance of your son not having his father much longer or even worse that your wife may not have the ones she loves the most much longer.
I am not saying that I have never done it. Most of us have but thankfully I lived long enough to smarten up.

I would hope that since your old enough to have a son that you are also old enough to know that street racing is DANGEROUS
and STUPID!

Cobras are enough of a handful all by themselves without throwing some other goofball driving his car at the edge into the mix.

please consider knocking the street racing down to 0% and track racing to 100%. I can not imagine not having my Dad around when growing up, don't deprive your son.

Have a good one,
Dan

[fxbill]

Wise words....well spoken...

[decobraman]

Yeah, I should have rephrased that to street cruising. I only raced maybe 2 times against some rice burners. What I really ment to say is street riding. I.E putting on a show at the stoplights. I would never race in any unsafe condition. Sorry about the confusion. avanti-176, you nailed it right on the head. I'm a mechanic and saw too many friends do something stupid and crash cars or wrap them around a telephone pole. I've had a friend total his Cobra on an off-ramp, then gotanother one, but crashed it again. Hell, I don't think I've ever gotten mine above 90 on any street/highway. (I guess 4.10 gears help too.)

As for heads. I'm takng the motor out and am just gonna do heads without hr knowing the pice. God bless cash. How are the Edelbrock RPM heads? I'm now looking for higher end in the 1200-1400 dollar range complete. What about AFR heads?

Also, would it be better to get a Ford cam or something like a Edelbrock or equilivent? It needs to be able to be used with stock rocker arms and pushrods. I was really leaning toward the Edelbrock cam and heads or the Crane cams until all you guys started recommending the Ford cams. Do they put out the same horsepower and torque?

And the manifold. As it turns out, I have an Edelbrock performer manifold. Therefore I'll think I won't change that around.

Once again, I don't care about idle or emissions.

[avanti-176]

Decobraman,
Excellent! as I suspected,you are smart enough. I hope you did not take offense but these cars are 2 things....

1. More fun than I have ever had on 4 wheels (I'll have to think about 2 wheels because I love my Bike...)

2. Trouble waiting to happen. I tell my friends that the Cobra is as close as I will ever get to riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

I have only had mine for a short time but I find that it is very much like my bike in that I think the only way to survive "on the street" (the track is a whole different ballgame) is to drive completely defensive. The minute you start driving offensively you are going to find yourself in big trouble.

now back to your real thread...
It is tough to go wrong with AFR ,there are better heads out there but in the purely "bang for the buck" sense they are hard to beat.

maybe we should start a whole new thread on offensive and defensive street driving?

Have a good one ,
Dan

[fxbill]

As far as cams...although the Motorsports are good I run a Competition Cams roller. You can call them in Tenn toll free and they will design one specifically around your components and needs. I called them a couple of years ago, told them what I had....heads, pistons, compression ratio, manifold, carb, gearing both tranny and rear, weight of car etc. and then told them what I wanted. I also added that I still wanted good vacuum at idle, but a nasty sounding idle to boot. It took him less than two minutes on his computer to come up with it...and it was beautiful. ..custom ground for me..He set the lobe centers at an odd angle to give the nasty idle, but retain good vacuum and it pulls HARD from 2500 up past 7000. Several weeks ago I called again and had the same guy design one that would pull from idle like a bull moose, but still run good up to 6000....again he did it. The fellow's name is Eric in the tech support sales dept and he can be reached anytime that Comp is open. he ran Pro Stock for years and can tell you anything you ever want to know about cams.
I do have the first cam if you're interested...less than 1200 miles and little if no wear...the specs are..500 lift with 1.6 rockers, 285 intake duration, 291 exhaust duration at 106 intake center line with a 109 lobe separation. It's strong and sounds great.
As far as heads....I run twisted wedge from Trick Flow. I've been very happy with them although if you run more than 540 lift you'll need special flycut pistons to accomodate the twisted valve arrangement. My builder doesn't care for the Edelbrock heads although I'm sure they're fine. The only others I've had experience with are Blue Thunders, but they're price prohibitive.
Hope this helps some..
Bill

[decobraman]

Ok......back to ththread guys, instead of making a new one.

First off...fxbill, I think I'll call Comp cams and havethem make me one. Same way almost, like a freight train from idle to around 6k, good vacumn, and a really nasty idle.

-If i tell them motor size and mods, they'll make sure they get the right one? Would they also recommend if I should stick with a roller or switch to a flat tappet?

Secondly, I'm looking at the Edelbrock Performer and Performer RPM heads. Should I stick with 1.90/1.60 valves or get the larger 2.02/1.60 valves? Do the '91 Ford 302 H.O. motors have the notched pistons for the 2.02 valves? Or do I have to stick with the smaller 1.90 valves?

Third, Hows a Perormer dual pane intake sound to top it off?

Finally, whats it take to stroke a motor?

[fxbill]

Stroking in most cases is a breeze. Scat makes great stroker cranks that are very reasonably priced...You can find them on Ebay. Pistons for a stroker can be had just as easily.Those two things and a little conservative clearancing are all you need.
If you want to run a Performer manifold get the Performer RPM. The standard Performer is a stock replacement type unit. It's OK, but the higher rise of the RPM model is much better.
Comp will give you exactly what you ask for and all you need to do is tell them what engine you have. I'd definitely go with the roller if it's affordable to you. ( If you have a 91 302 it's already set up with a roller.) You can get a much more aggresive grind with less problems overall. Put it in and forget it.
The pistons you have are dished and shouldn't present a problem with 202 valves depending on your cam lift although if you're building a torque motor and aren't worried about the loss of some high end HP the smaller valve models will work fine.
Hope this helps.
Bill

[decobraman]

OK, new question then.

Could I get more horsepower with new heads, cam, and intake or with a 347 stroker kit, intake, and cam?

Basically, I want horsepower....and now I'm thinking get a stroker kit, new cam and intake. I'm not sure how well it would work with stock heads, as restrictive as they are.

So, would it be a bigger benefit to get a stroker kit and keep the stock heads, or keep the same stroke, but get new heads?

[bvega]

First off I would decide how many miles are on the motor and if it is close to needing a rebuild then do a stroker and get a set of quality parts.

If your 302 is pretty fresh and has low miles and good ring condition and compression then go with a set of AFR 185cc heads, and an Ed Curtis Custom Cam. If their was a king of SBF cams it would have to be Ed Curtis at Flow Tech Induction. Dual pattern cams are the way to go for SBF and the Ford Alphabet cams suck but are decent since they are half the price of a custom cam. Since your carbuerated you should see about 400 rwhp with a 302 with AFR 185 cc heads and a custom Ed curtis cam that will have decent idle and great mid range. And since the AFR 185's are great for 347 strokers motors you can use them on the new bottom end if you decide to step up later on saving you bundles of money. I own a 5.0 mustang and those are the best parts with best research and knowledge behind them. You cant go wrong with AFR and Ed Curtis. Any Edelbrock intake will work fine.

Hope this helps,
Brian

[fxbill]

Tough call, but my guess would be more horsepower with the stock displacement and goodies. More torque with a stroker and stock heads.
If it were mine...( and I've done it this way before) I stay with the 302 to begin with and add the goodies. Wait until you need a rebuild and then do the stroking. My last Mustang playtoy was done this way. I added a B303 cam, twisted wedge heads, performer RPM manifold, Edelbrock 750 carb, Mac equal length snake tube headers, and MSD distributor in the first go around. My God, what a difference! I don't think stroking without the rest of the parts would have had near the effect. It had less torque, but when it came up on the cam it would really wake you up. 373 gears made up for the lack in torque.

[bvega]

fxbill is right. Although nowadays with AFR heads using smaller ports and valves then Ford Racing and other brands they flow much more air and have higher compression out of the box. They come cnc ported with 3 angle competition valve jobs and cnc blended combustion chambers. You can get them emission legal or non legal depending on your preference. For instance on 302 with a holley carb on it and a comp cams cam the increase between the stock E7TE 5.0 head and the AFR 165 head was 90 HP!!! the motor had the most torque and most hp and beat edelbrock and canfield and TW by about 20 hp and they had the highes average hp and torque. That is tough to do. They also had the most area under the curve which says a lot for its all around performance not just peak power production. Here is my advice spend $1,500 on the AFR heads. You will save 50 pounds by going aluminum, have out of the box perfect heads, spend $300 on the custom cam from Ed Curtis, and be done with the motor forever.

You will never want to do a stroker and with your lightweight cobra chassis you dont need to worry about torque down low as much. If you want you can put some 3.73 gears in it.

You car will easily do mid to high 11's in the 1/4 if you can get traction. Your car will scream and run cooler and you will never have to touch the motor until you need a bottom end rebuild. Then if you want rebuild strocker kit then you can just freshen up the heads with new guides and springs etc. Spend the money first and right. Dont buy the cheap parts because you wont be happy saving the $500 and always wondering what it would be like to have a 375 rwhp 5.0. I have a 5.0 Mustang running the AFR heads and it is EFI with the Cobra intake and it is making about 310 rwhp and 350 rwtq. It idels fine and has adequate low end.

[Curt C.]

Has the budget increased over $1200?? Do not go with a stroker unless you can afford good heads to go with it. Biggest bang for the buck will be heads, intake and cam. Increased cubic inches will do nothing without adequate flow on the top end. I like the idea of going with GT40 Y's, E cam and Air Gap intake. That should net you 50-60 horsepower or more. Stick with a 1.94 intake valve. Unless you are going to run a fairly radical cam, 2.02 is too big for a mild 302. Now if the the budget has increased I would go with a 331 stoker, Ed Curtis custom cam, Victor Jr. intake, Demon carb and AFR 185's. 400 plus HP easily. BTW, if you buy a stroker kit, get it from a reputable source like DSS. There are a lot of horror stories about bad stroker kits on the market. You can get a whole wealth of info about 302's from the mustang site www.corral.net

[bvega]

I wouldnt worry about the AFR 185 being too big in valve size. They still have small intake runners. the roush 180cc heads are another but look they are 180 cc. It is not just about the size of runner and valves as described in the MM and FF article about cylinder head shootout. It is also about compression ratio and overall flow characteristics. the AFR heads are not peak power oriented only they make they most average hp. They make it possible to have your cake and eat it too. You can always make up for the lost torque down low with your somewhate small carb and a custom cam that will take your CID into account.

Whats nice about going 185cc heads now is that you can easily use them on your 331 or 347 stroker and then just change your cam and intake and carb. That move can save you over a $1K farther down the line.

[decobraman]

OK, here's what I'm gonna do.

AFR 185 heads with the 2.02 valves. They will clear, right?

Performer RPM dual pane intake manifold.

Probably a comp or similar cam. Wat duration and lift would yo guys recommend? And what seperation (I was thinking a little radical like 110 or similar?)

Think this could get me 350-380 hp?