best cam, heads, and intake.....??

[bvega]

With that combo you should be making 375 rwhp which converts to 400 hp at the engine. You may clearance issues. You can do two things. You can get the piston notcher from Isky cams and do it yourself, go to a machine shop and there is new technology that allows them to notch your pistons while they are still in the car or you can use an air dremel with a diamond bit and do it yourself with a premad template that you could fashion.

If you dont want to worry about the clearance issues then you can go with the AFR 165cc heads. They will make better low end tq but will not really be enough if you choose to go to a stroker later on.

If you really want some much more thorough advice than what I can give you then call and talk to ed curtis at Flow Tech Induction. you can get their number at www.fti.com. You tell him your situation and he will recommend your best route and the best combo for the type of performance and driveability that you are looking for. Dont just take my advice and buy all of these parts. Do a lot of research and then do some more. I have had great experience with my AFR 165/Crower 15511 Cam/Cobra intake. But I am EFI and even more limitin is that I am using a Speed Density computer system instead of the Mass Air Flow system that is more flexible. I also live in CA so I have smog to deal with.

I would really talk to Ed curtis. You will probably have to notch your pistons since you can go pretty big with your cam, bigger than efi motors, and that means less clearance.

If you have anymore questions feel free to ask. I know alot about the SBF setups through my 5.0 buildup. I did tones of research and almost bought those y-303 heads from Hawaii Racing but then I decided to just go all out and get the Infamous AFR heads. They are without a doubt the best street/strip heads on the market and are worth every penny.

Unless you absolutely cant spend the extra few hundred $ then go with some TW heads or some cheap Y303 aluminum ones.

[decobraman]

http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ford_dyno.htm

Third one down......455 hp 302 Ford SB. Is that eally possible with that stuff only? (That is exactly how I wanted to set mine up.)

[ozaiss1]

I have a cheap idea, Drag race on nitrous and drive on gas. Best of both worlds on a budget.

[bvega]

Look AFR is the master of cylinder heads. They originally started out by making cylinder heads for stock car racing for chevys. Then about 2-3 years ago they developed a SBF head. Right now they are the best quality and best all around head as well as the best performing head and they are within a couple hundred dollars of their competition.

Did you see how broad that torque band was. You will have decent low end and then amazing mid and top end power. Those dyno numbers are accurate. One thing about AFR is that they dont fudge their numbers. They are very fair and honest about that stuff. You can tell because the Mustang Mags have proven that with independent tests their heads are amazing at flowing more with less. Meaning they have more average and peak flow of air using smaller runners and valves. They also increase power across the whole rpm band by having the highest compression. Remember this is all out of the box. If you go with the cheaper head companies you will easily spend the difference for port work and valve jobs to make them flow like AFR's and risk using a bad shop etc. Just by the parts right and be done with it.

To by the right parts you need to make a list of what you want out of this motor. Right down what you will be using it for mostly, how much power you want, and how much money you are willing to spend. Then you should call Ed Curtis who is also a AFR and TW dealer as well as the best cam maker in SBF world and have him put something together for you. I believe that AFR also has an intake manifold for your carb setup but that may be strictly for race and not streetable.

According to AFR they are currently developing heads for the 428 CJ but those wont be coming out for another year or two. That is a heads up for all of us new cobra car guys going with the BBF setup.

The quality of AFR is unmatched even by Ford and their R&D is impeccable. Now be prepared to wait a month to get your heads as they are ALWAYS back ordered.

Look if you want to go with doing it right the first time it may cost you some money in labor to have the pistons notched, gaskets, misc parts, etc so you need to really find out what your top dollar budget. If you go with the 185cc heads which I would advise if you are going to keep the motor and later do a stroker rebuild later then you will probably have to notch your pistons. Or you cuold just get new probe or JE pistons that are dished. but then you have to tear down the bottom end which can be a pain. You have a lot of options so it is now up to you to do your homework. You can buy a bunch of the nicest parts on the market and end they may not work good together. It is all about the combo.

[Curt C.]

You will have to flycut those pistons to accomodate a 2.02 valve if the pistons do not already have the valve notches. 400 naturally aspirated HP out of a 302 will require a nasty cam and a fair amount of compression. Talk to Ed Curtis about the cam. He is the king. I doubt you will be able to run pump gas with that kind of power. The AFR 185 head is great. I have them on my 351W. With a 540 lift cam I am generating 377 RWHP on 91 pump gas.

[bvega]

The dyno numbers you showed off the afr website tell it all. It is not too nasty a cam and it is not all about lift. For instance there are countless guys running AFR 165/E-Cam/Cobra Intake EFI mustangs on a 302 and getting 325-330 rwhp = 370-380 fwhp.

I think that you could easily get 350 rwhp from a carb 302 with AFR 185 cc heads. Keep in mind that a 390 hp pump gas combo has already been tested in the MM&FF cylinder head shootout. I believe it was in the july or august editions. That is why I think you could make a nice 10.1 compression n/a 302 that will be as streetable as any other 500 hp FE motor cobra.

Im sure you can see that EFI cars have long intake runners giving them more low and mid range tq than carb but the overall hp is really hindered by this hence you have the Trick Flow R series intakes with really short EFI runners. Since you have a smaller carb with a streetable intake you should preserve your low and mid range but your top end will scream.

That 540 lift cam is pretty mild in terms of lift but you must also consider duration and Lobe separation as these factors really determing idle quality and flow characteristics.

[Curt C.]

No question, lots of E cam / AFR 165 combos making 330 RWHP. But we are talking about another 30-50 HP right? Dont get confused. The Comp cam used in the 455 HP motor cited earlier is damn NASTY. 282 Cam, 565/574 232/240 @.050. That is a whole lot of duration for a 302. A friend has this cam in a DSS 306 Novi Blown combo; idles at 1100 and does not have good low end. My cam has 520/538 lift and 236/246 duration. Idles at 850-900 and has a healthy lope. This is also in a 351W which requires more cam than a 302. It just depends on how much streetability you want. In any case, AFR is the way to go - no question.

[decobraman]

I though idle quality wa mainly based on lobe serperaion, wichis this case is a moderate 112. (??)

Secondly, I have about 1500-1600 $$ to spend. I already have my intake (Edelbrock Performer RPM dual pane) sitting in the garage.

Third, should I think about new rockers or anything?

Finally, about how much performance difference is there with the 1.90 and 2.02 valves. I really don't want to notch out the pistons, so I think I'll be stuck with the 1.90 unless you guys say there is a huge difference, in which I will notch them.

-Dave

P.S.- If I got a cam with less lift could I get away with 2.02 valves?

[fxbill]

Yes....less lift will allow 2.02 valves. Roller rockers are nice. I have an extra set of 1.6 Cranes if you're interested. PM me. The RPM manifold is great for all around use....keep it! I don't know how much the AFR heads are, but I've never been convinced that they were the best by any means...(no offense guys, but everyone has his opinion). For the budget you're wanting to keep I'd look into the GT40 heads that another member here mentioned....I believe he said they were on sale for $850 at Hawaii Racing. You won't beat that for HP versus $$! Sure you might see another 10-20 HP from better heads, but at what additional cost?...and you're on a budget remember? Buy what will give you the most for your money and an extra $300-$500 for 10-20HP is not a good deal. A hundred dollar set of headers will give you a more than that..and better mileage too!lol
Consider your budget...make a list of cost Vs HP and work from that. Also remember that most items will give you the best HP when combined with other items of equal performance and operating bandwidth. Don't use huge valve heads with a low rise manifold. Don't use a Victor manifold with a torque cam....You get the idea.....Keep things balanced and within your budget.
Good luck!

[bvega]

You can get the AFR 165cc heads for about $100 less than the 185cc ones. I just thought that if you get the 185's you would save money farther down the line if you decided to do a stroker which sounds like you are interested in doing. Whatever you do dont do a stroker with a stock top end you will be very unhappy.

One thing to consider is that AFR's are the best. You can read about it anywhere. Sure you can port and polish the GT40 Y303 heads and you can upgrade the spings and retainers etc as well to make them comparable to the AFR's but now you just spent at least $400-$500 and now you just bought yourself AFR's.

Consider it this way, you get the GT40 Y heads and you will get a 40-50hp increase with a good cam and intake. You get the AFR's and you are looking at an 75-90 hp increase. Big difference in dollar per horsepower.

Before you start buying parts and convincing the wife I would call ed curtis. I cant stress this enough. Talk to someone that has done buildups millions of times and sells all the parts in question. You tell him your desires both in performance and driveability and your budget and then let him give you the skinny. If you would like even more diverse advice then go to www.stangnet.com or www.corral.net. These forums are full of people who have gone down the same road as you.

For torque at the low end it is all about port velocity. For the top end it is all about max flow. Some companies create heads that use huge ports and big valves to accomplish this. Others use big ports and small valves. And there is AFR which uses comparable average ports with average sized valves and much higher compression ratios due to smaller combustion chambers. They also create a perfectly blended and contoured intake and combustion and valve seat and angle. More importantly they create bigger than average exhaust ports with average exhaust valves to aid the very exhaust deficient breathing of the 302 motors.

AFR's do not flow the most air and dont use the biggest ports or the biggest valves. But they make the most max hp and tq and more importantly make the most average power and tq. This average is what makes you feel power all around the RPM band and makes driveability great as well as peak performance.

You get what you pay for most of the time. Sure some combos have great bang for the buck. For instance you can get your stock heads cnc ported with bigger valves from Powerheads in Fullerton CA. They will flow air and make similar power to the GT40 Y303 heads. They also upgrade the valvetrain on the heads to accomodate your cam.

Be careful not to buy the biggest heads with the nastiest cam and massive demon carbs. You have no idea how many people have the slowest performers, worst idling, worst gas mileage, bucking 5.0's out there. Some combos just work together. Buying the biggest and best of everything is usually the worst way to go and the most costly. It is all about the overall combo, heads/cam/intake/carb/exhaust/gears etc. When you talk to ed curtis you should tell him about your current motor and exhaust and everything else that we have discussed earlier. He has given me great advise before and it was actually steering me away from buying something from him so you know he will be honest.

If you have to notch the pistons then get them notched. If you have a tight budget then save up more money and do it right. Being ansty and quick to buy what you dont really want or need will cost much more than just being patient and doing it right. If you dont want or need 400 hp then dont worry about it and look for a setup that ed curtis put together or suggests to get you there. He may tell you to just have your heads ported and polished etc, and then put an off the shelf dual pattern cam or even a ford racing cam or even just some 1.72 RR's and advancing your stock cam a few degrees. You never know how it will end up until you brainstorm and write down your goals for the car and then put them together with your budget and timeline. Then when you have made your compromises and decided on your priorities you go find the parts to meet your needs and put it together and fire it up and enjoy knowing that this combo was the right one for you and not somebody elses dream that your driving and hating the whole time.

I am sorry for the long posts but I just want to pass on the favor that some very kind strangers on the mustang forums have passed on to me and lead me through the dark and costly vast world of SBF performance parts. There are a lot of good parts that dont work well together and cheap parts that work great. It really depends on your situation and preference.

[mstngjoe]

Originally posted by decobraman


......P.S.- If I got a cam with less lift could I get away with 2.02 valves?

Hi All. Just joined up and thought I might jump in here.

Don't have a Cobra yet, but I'm in the research stage and looking forward to my new project.

I just finished up a 331 for my 65 Mustang. I'm running the AFR 185 heads and a custom cam by Buddy Rawls. Along with some other goodies.

I wanted to mention that when the valve is at its highest point, the piston is near the bottom of the cylinder. It's the duration that effects piston to valve clearance, not the lift.

One thing I learned is that matching up your parts to all work together saves time, money and disappointment. Ed Curtis is certainly a well respected name and I wouldn't argue anything that has been said about him. And he would certainly be more than capable to put together a winning combination for you. But it is tough to get thru to him sometimes.

The other thing is that there are some AFR dealers who stock heads (Ed Curtis for one), but you will usually pay the higher price for these heads. If you are not in a hurry you can sometimes save $100 or more if you're willing to wait a few weeks. There's a guy named Brian at www.adperformance.com that supposedly has some fantastic prices on heads and stroker kits. I haven't used him myself but from what I have seen he has an excellent rep and customer service.

I used SCAT crank andH-beam rods with SRP pistons in my stroker. I highly recommend the SCAT products. Good quality and excellent machine work.

BTW, nice site you guys have going here. Hope to learn a lot about the Cobra in the months to come.

[stevehaygood]

Checkout the October 2003 edition of CAR CRAFT magazine. It has bunches of info on small block fords on pages 44-45. Also, I think it was in the same magazine that although Ford quitmaking the 302 a fwew months ago, there is an outfit on the west coast with about 500 units left of the iron GT-40 head new and complete for about $600/pr. complete. It could have been in the current HOT Rod. I buy both.

[decobraman]

Ok, bringing back an old thread. I think I know whatI'm going to do. I was good throttle response and god mid-range torque and horsepower. So, lets hear your opinions!

-stock 302 block and pistons.
-Miloden oil pan
-Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
-Holley 650CFM carb
-windage tray
- Either:
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with the 1.90" valves OR....
Edelbrock " " w/ the 2.02 valves (dremel the piston clearance notches bigger.)
-Cam with 224/236 @ .050, .490" intake .510" exhaust....110-112 lobe seperation (not sure brand, but prettty set on the specs)
-Edelbrock 1.7 roller rockers
-stock pushrods (they will still work, correct)
-stock lifters (same question as above)

Extras:
-upper and lower control arms (or just bushings)
-Pro 5.0 or Steeda T-5 shifter
-Edelbrock water pump

One more question: Where can I get a taller filter for my oval assembly. Mine is only like 1 3/4 inches tall, where as I've seen some oval filters that were around 4-5 inches tall.

[NeedAntiVenom]

Decobraman,

You might want to strengthen the rods/pistons a little - close to the edge.

Manifold is good as are heads, so are World Products and GT40X.

650 carb is to large, 600 CFM is more than enough.
CFM=CID*RPM/3456=302*6000/3456=525 CFM
Smaller carb will improve throttle response.

Going over 224 degrees I/E (@0.050) AND over 110 overlap may cost you in low/midrange and drivability.

Comp cams 31-414-3, 224I/224E/110O, 0.500 lift
Comp cams 31-226-3, 230I,230E,110O, 0.512 lift

Are two choices as is Ford B303. Any of them will get you around 340-360 HP in combo.

Hardened pushrods might be good as well.

[decobraman]

Ok thanks. I aready have the carb on it now, so I don't thi I'm going with anything smaller.

As for the cam, I wanted a dual pattern. How does 218/224@.050 sound? I was definately going to go with a 112 lobe sep, realizing that a 110 may be too low. However, I don't mind loosing some low end power.

How muc do pushrods go for? An specific brand recommendation?

[SSSnake]

We have the World products Jr. aluminum heads on our 331 stroker as recommended by our engine builder. 10.5:1 compression. Custom Lunati cam ( .550 lift, 234 duration at .050). Victor Jr. Intake and a 650cfm 4150 holley. According to the dyno sheet, the motor never used more than 600 cfm on the pulls. It made 445hp at the flywheel at 6500 rpm. It has more than enough low end and once you get about 3500rpm it pulls like crazy. Idles around 1100.

From what i've read, AFR heads are the way to go for out of the box performance.

Even with 300hp, these cars are blindingly fast.

Glenn

[decobraman]

That what I figured. I want it to be driveable. I was figuring around 300-310 RWHP is what I'm expecting, which is fine by me.

[NeedAntiVenom]

Decobraman,

Keep in mind that as you increase the durations & overlap, you also push yourself towards a higher compression ratio. A 112 lobe sep offsets that a little, but not much. For ~$800 you can get the WP Jrs, a lot of bang for the buck. Also, for the HP your looking for you may have to rev out past 6000 - getting you close bottom end upgrades.

Crane and comp both make nice p-rods, including (crane) some slick adjustable units to help measure for custom lengths - and set the right rocker geometry if you going to use odd rockers/lifters. ~$30 for heat treated, ~$80 for chrome moly.

FordMuscle had a good writeup on a 400 HP/302:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1...se/index.shtml

Jim

[jayem]

I think the best value in a small block ford head is from Tri State
Cylinder Heads 1 800 270 0095. They have gt40p heads with
194/160 valves for $569 and they ship for free.

[Excaliber]

Yeah right,,,,ship for free to HAWAII?? I don't think so! lol

Ernie