1989 Police Interceptor 351 W ?

[Bumpster]

My engine builder has a 1989 Crown Vic police car with a 351 W "police interceptor" engine that he wants to build for my Cobra. I've seen the car with the engine in it and it has some kind of variable venturi carb that I obviously will not need. Anybody know anything about this engine? I was hoping for an early 70's block to build on, but my builder says this is an extra heavy duty police unit that has it's advantages. I am thinking that in 1989 it might have some smog modifications to the block that would have to be reworked. Any advice would be appreciated.

Bumpster

[todd]

is it out of an old police car? The only thing that I have seen different on our squads is a larger radiator and oil coolers/trans cooler. Think about what a police car does...sits at idle for long periods of time then goes wide oprn. I know our squads are crap after 18 months in service.

Todd

[Bumpster]

Todd - Yes it is an unmarked detective's car. It has the oil and tranny cooler and larger radiator. There is no doubt that it is an old police car. I just never heard of that engine (351 W) being in any Ford cars in 1989, but I think it was still being put into trucks. I just am wondering if a 1989 block is desirable or not. I know the early seventy's blocks are preferred for various reasons, but I'm having trouble finding one. If this is not a good block to use, I need to know real soon.

Bumpster

[Excaliber]

That variable venturi carb is in fact your worst nightmare, it was junk. That means a new intake manifold as well.

The heads are "drilled" for the fresh air jinjection ports fed from the "smog pump". That disrupts the exhaust flow so some welding/porting, and removal of the "air injection" tubes will need to be done.

Throw away the cam (need a new one anyway) and lifters.

Save the pistons, crank and rods? Maybe, maybe not, machinist will know if it's even worth while.

What you REALLY need to ask is:
Did the "police special" REALLY have anything "that special" about the block\pistons\crank in the first place?

The original cam would be a little more agressive than a "standard" application, (but you getting a new one anyway). The water pump could have been "bigger" (but your getting a new one anyway). The variable carb might have been a little bigger (but your getting a new one anyway). The exhaust manifold is likely "bigger" than standard (but your using headers anyway). The compression ratio MIGHT be a little better than "standard", but quite possibly to "low" to amount to anything anyway.

Oh I know!!! The crank might be an excellent piece, forged??? The block? Hmmm,,,hard to imagine it's anything much better than "standard".

I'm not sure a "police" engine makes any difference over a "standard" engine when a "re-build" is going to be done anyway.

What you got is a: 1989 351W "block" that MIGHT be worth rebuilding. Why would a 1970's block be any better or worse?
I wouldn't be swayed into paying more (or less) just "because" it's a "police special",,,,,big whoop.

Ernie

[Bumpster]

Ernie - Thanks for the reply. Yes, everything will be replaced on the engine, heads and all, the block completely rebuilt and magnafluxed, the whole nine yards. If the crankshaft is good, maybe it will be used. I specified a minimum of 400 hp and 400 fp torque verified by dyno and my builder says no problem. Not going stroked, only .030 bored to 358. I have no idea if this is a good block to start with, it just seems that most of what I have read about 351 W's refers to blocks from the seventies, and some years are preferable over others. Builder says that a police interceptor would have more iron, or is it nickle, content and therefore be "better." I'm dealing with a builder with a good local reputation, and I have no reason to doubt his word. If I knew more about engines, I would build it myself. I'm looking for as much advice about this particular block as I can find.

Thanks for your input.

Bumpster

[fxbill]

I don't know what cam you'll be using for the engine, but there's a difference in lifter bore height somewhere around that year if I remember correctly. Mine's a 69 block and the bore height was lower than later models. I tried using standard Ford hydraulic roller lifters with it and discovered that they wouldn't work....they were pushed almost all the way out of the bores when the cam was on the high end of the lobes. I ended up having to use Crane lifters with the link bars instead with a custom ground cam with a smaller base circle.
I only say this in that it could be more expensive for your build depending on what parts you go with as compared to a different block....Used cores are cheap and a later year might offer you more options with stock, more affordable parts.
Good luck....have fun...that's what it's all about!
Bill

[Bumpster]

Thanks, Bill, that's exactly the kind of information that I need. I'm leaving the choices of which cam, valve train, heads, etc. to be used to the builder since I really have no experience to call on other than input from people like you who know something about all of this. He has guaranteed at least 400 hp and 400 fp torque at the flywheel, so I'll let him build it as he sees fit. I've just never heard much about the 351W other than the earlier years and I need to know what might be different about a 1989 block that would make it better or worse. I can't believe Ford didn't make some changes to the block by 1989, twenty years after the engine first went into production.

Thanks again for your help.

Bumpster

[fxbill]

Glad it helped....Your builder will have absolutely no trouble at all getting 400 flywheel horses out of the motor...and he'll still have room to go I'm sure!

[Excaliber]

Hey the machinist might be referring to the "Mexican" block? The 302 (5.0) came in two style of blocks, one was a "Mexican" block, more nickel or something like that. Supposed to be stronger than the USA block.

Could be the same thing applies to the 351? There was some kind of marking or casting difference on the 5.0 block that identified it as Mexican.

Anyone heard about this on the 351's?

Ernie

[fxbill]

I've heard references to the metal content as well so I did a bit of searching tonight....I found this.
A quote from the Team Dark Horse website....
"I started with a block I found for $100 in a Tennessee wrecking yard, a Mexican-made piece from a 1971 Ford pickup with thicker webbing of the main journal and sidewalls. Not a Boss block by any means, but stronger than a standard unit at a fraction of the cost. (Despite the folklore that the Mexican blocks are made of a stronger, higher nickel-content cast iron, I was told by Ford Motorsports engineer Rod Kack that they're made of the same
metal as American or Canadian blocks, just more of it in some useful places.)"
I don't know about the extra webbing or whether the 351 is included in this lot, but this might answer the question of the metal content...
Bill

[Woodz428]

The fact that it has a V V carb makes me think that it is earlier than the '89 body that it is in. They did make 351W PI engines but I think after about '85 they were CFI. I'd be leary of it's originality. 351W's are fairly plentiful and it sounds like everything (other than the coolers) that makes a PI engine unique is going to be changed anyway, if he's offering it at a core price it's probably an o.k. deal, but if it's at a premium,I'd pass.

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

Please do us a favor, leave the air injection. If it costs 5 HP its a lot and the car runs much cleaner. Just my 2 bits!

[stengun]

Howdy Bumpster!

I would pass on the engine and the engine builder. Ford did not make an '89 351w-PI engine and all V-8's by '87 were EFI. Last year of Vari-venturi was like 79, 80 or 81 , something like that. You dont want that engine, and your builder doesnt know what he is talking about. The '71- '74 blocks were stronger (more nickel) and a little heavier.

Good luck...Paul.

[Bumpster]

Paul - I appreciate the info, however it leaves me rather confused. I saw the engine in the car, it was a 1989 Crown Vic police detective's car, with the heavy duty cooling sysyem and oil cooler and all that. It once had the bubble gum lights on the roof, among other things, as the holes were patched over, so at one time it was a police cruiser before being painted blue and becomming a detective's car. It had the variable venturi carb which was rather unique looking. If you are correct, the only explanation is that the engine was not a 351. Hopefully, my engine builder is astute enough to recognize that. If he isn't, then you are correct, I need a new builder. The engine is out of the cruiser now and I'll check the block number to see just what it is. Thanks for the help.

Bumpster

[fxbill]

I recently sold a 1985 Mustang and understood that it was the last year for any Ford to have a carbureted engine. I have a 1986 van with a 351W and it's injected... Don't know if that means anything, but I'd be suspect of any engine in a 1989 that had a carburetor on it unless it was a swap. Check numbers...that's the only way to tell anything for sure!

[Excaliber]

Well,,,,some of those "carbs" weren't your "normal" outfit. The variable venturi carb was a strange animal indeed. Prior to fuel injection and moving away from "carbs" it was a stop gap kinda of thing. NOT very successful, and only used a few years.

The size of the venturi varied according to throttle position.

Ernie

[Rick Parker]

Very easy: Take the VIN # to a Ford dealers part dept. They will be able to decipher the vin to tell you the original engine size, manufacturing plant (where car was made) and various other things regarding that specific car. Then check for potential induction sytems available during that year. Vehicle was probably made with injection. Look for emisions label on the underside of hood or in the engine compartment.

Good luck

[PSB]

Bumpster,

I second the fact that Ford didn't put a 351W in police Crown Vics in '89. Either the engine was swapped in later or it's a 302.


Pete

[SVO460]

Hopefull I'm not jumping here too late.
Sorry guys but Ford in fact DID use 351W's up until '91 in the Crown Vic Police Interceptors P71's, last of the old boxy body, and in the wagons. Not sure if the wagons motors were different then Police other then extra coolers ect.
I almost bought one, a P71, a few years ago but it was to ratty. There is one on ebay now, item # 2437937321.
I too have a police 351 but from an '89 I believe, got it as part of a trade, and I'm also looking for more specific info about them as I plan to go with at least the 393 stroker. What I know for sure is 351's in '79 the main webs were cast a little thinner(maybe other areas too). '72 the deack height went up from 9.48 to 9.503, and somewhere around '82-'83 the rear main seal changed to a one piece style Not sure if they changed anything for the police/truck blocks. All 351 Police/Wagons had the V V 2bbl. Trucks had either 4bbl carb or fuel injection. After 94 they got roller cams. I have no idea if the lifter bore height was changed from the '80's - '91 Police engines but I do know they had to be machined for the rollers. All 351's used the 28 oz imballance. '98 was the last year of production.
Now to just figure out if the police blocks were anything special. :-/
Bumpster, not that I know what it means, but does your block have "WCP-9" cast in the lifter valley? My heads (not that it matters, I'm going aluminum) also have "WCP" on them. They are E5AE's. Probably crap anyhow. ?

[cobra427mnsi]

All 351 Windsors were cast in Canada. Specifically, Windsor, Ontario. Thus 351 Windsor. The other 351s, namely Cleveland, were made in Cleveland Ohio. Completely different engine though.

tere wer no 351 Windsors were made in Mexico.

Paul