Choices and such...

JimsGems · #1 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 11:34 PM

OK, I don't want to start a war here, but I'd like to know which 351 engine would make a better build, my target is in the range of 400 to 450 BHP.

First are the motor mounts the same on the "W" and the "C".

There is a wide choice of parts and pieces like AFR Heads and such to make either a real powerful but highly streetable engine. Realiably is my goal, this will be a daily driver, or must behave as if it was a daily driver. Just looking for some answers.

Thanks in advance.

If you'd like to respond off site/line, please write me at jim@jimsgems.com

Buzz · #2 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 07:22 AM

Hi, Jimmy! Can we take this as a sign that you're rejoining the brotherhood? Heaven forbid that you're gonna stuff a 450 horse 351 into a little Spyder! That would surely qualify as a weapon of mass destruction!!

Mr.Fixit · #3 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 11:17 AM

Windsor, it's the motor that shares heads (and more!) with the "5.0" which due to it's huge aftermarket, has driven up the quality and availability of parts.

CowtownCobra · #4 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 11:44 AM

I built a Windsor, sounds just like what you want:

Balanced and blueprinted 1971 351W, Keith Black Silvolite Hyperutectics pistons, Comp Cams 284 HR roller cam & Pro Magnum Roller Rockers, FMS hydraulic roller tappets, Windsor jr aluminum heads, Edlebrock RPM Airgap dual plane intake, MSD with rev limiter, 750 cfm carb. Desktop dyno shows somewhere between 410 and 475 hp.

JimsGems · #5 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 12:13 PM

So, what I'm hearing the 351 Windsor is the cat's ass. I've always thought that but I like the 4 bolt mains and the overall head design of the Cleveland. I'm still working on it. Thanks all for your thoughts and ideas.

Yeh, I'm back, those Porsche People are too pissy for me. I want MEAT!!!

Never really left, but yeh, I'm here now. Thanks all... again.

CowtownCobra · #6 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 12:17 PM

My understanding is that not all Clevelands had 4 bolt mains.

rdorman · #7 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 12:56 PM

Not all Clevelands are four bolt mains. Even though the Cleveland has been out of production for 30 years in this country the Cleveland lived on in Australia until I beleive the mid 80's. Down under the Cleveland is IT! If I have my history straight Ford took a number of ideas from the Cleveland for the 460.

Go to Ebay and you can get every part you need for the Cleveland. Blocks, heads, etc are all available. Some one even makes a four valve over head cam setup for the Cleveland! Now that would be cool! Top that with four webbers or some stack injection, talk about a unique motor!

The block are the same 2 or 4 bolts but the caps are different (plus the holes for the extra bolts in the block). Some contend that the four bolts are not required.

Part choice is more limited and slightly more expensive. But the Cleveland looks better, IMHO, and is nearly bullit proof as it comes. Pro stocker turn 10,000 RPM using the stock cast crank and I have never heard of one breaking!

400 is a mild Cleveland. 2 barrel heads, Edelbrock performer, 600-650 holley and ford cam 6250 A 341 with compression under 9.5 (flat tops) will get you a very reliable 400. (this is my engine but it has the 4 barrell heads which are overkill). Motor just purrs along with a slight lope at idle.

450 is just a cam change, say lunati bracket master II and a blue thunder intake (the best street cleveland manifold hands down). This is probably where I am going next.

500, same cam, 4 barrell head, a bit more compression, a parker funnel web(maybe even stick with the blue thunder) and a slightly larger carb. Still VERY streetable engine. Motor will have a good lope, Idle just over 1000 and will SCREAM!!!

How about a 400 with Cleveland heads?

I have had a couple of Clevelands. They love to rev and refuse to quit! The Cleveland was designed and manufactured to be a racing engine. Ford got fed up with the Chevy folk laughing about Fords small block heads.

Winsors are good motors to, I just really like the Cleveland.

Rick

JimsGems · #8 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 01:47 PM

Rick;

You all are correct of course, the only Cleveland I've ever worked on was a 4 bolt main set-up, and besides Southern Automotive 351"C" is a grand($) lower in price than the "W".

How about engine mounts? Same as a "W" or... I'm getting very interested in a BDR Cobra Replica and I know they have Windsor mounts standard.

Two years ago I built a 351 "W" (Crate) on spec., it had AFR 185cc heads and a Speed Demon 750 and it dyno'ed at 498 BHP which is awsum from a 351 of any ilk. It's still runing strong in a Mustang that is owned and run by a friend. I also know that they are making a very reliable 427 CID from a "W" block too.

Again, thanks all. Jim

"Is there no end to the madness? NO! Thank God."

rdorman · #9 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 01:57 PM

Fred Douglas has a Cleveland long block for sale.

I know the motor mounts are different just by looking up part numbers but that is about the extent of it!

Remember that the Cleveland is wider, be sure there is room!

Rick

DAVID GAGNARD · #10 (**permalink**) 08-06-2003, 12:15 PM

Jim;

If you could post the specs on the 351-W crate motor you built,I will be building a very similar motor this winter and would be interested in what you built yours with.... I'm going to use AFR heads on mine and was hoping for an honest 425 to 450 hp. Seems yours beat that real easy....

Interested in the setup...

Thanks;

David