Small Block in 427 body - do cubes matter?

[goaztecs]

After working on classic Mustangs for 15 years, I bought a Cobra replica about a year ago. A nice car, but needed enough work to keep me busy. The car came with a 1965 289ci motor, which is tuned mildly over stock (cam, intake, carb, headers, etc) and makes lots of power and a great noise out the sidepipes. Also, it enabled the car to be registered as a 1965 Ford in California.

Now to the point - The car is a 427 Cobra replica, complete with 427 badging. People ALWAYS ask me what's under the hood, and are disappointed to hear that it's only a 289, and that I'm a bit of a poser. Also, I've noticed in most of these forums that most folks have a 351W or stroker, and that stock 289's are not real popular in 427 replicas. I'm actually pretty happy with the performance of my car, but I'm getting a case of Cube Envy. Does anyone else feel conflicted about a 289 or 302 in their "427 Cobra". Should I bolt in a stroker kit (to 331 or 347ci), or upgrade to 351-406W. Or am I nuts?

[sharpe 1]

Let your checkbook be your guide.

[Russ Dickey]

I think most of the guys around here emphasize the point that you should "build it to your taste", and that the motor doesn't matter.

However, there are a few purists like me who think that an FE big-block goes in a 427 Cobra, and a small-block belongs in a 289 Cobra. But, I push a bit of hypocracy with my own car, as my FIA has a 351W powerplant in it versus the correct 289. Oh well, at least it's a smallblock...

You'll get thousands of opinions as to which is better and why, but when the kid on the street, or the guy with his girlfriend asks "Does it have a big-block??", don't you just want to say "Damn tootin' it does", instead of "No, but here's the laundry list as to why the small-block is better.???

Russ

[mj_duell]

Hello,
Don't be to perplex about the motor and badging. Truth is most of the "Real" 427 Cobras that carry a 427 badge are actually 428 PI Motors. Ole Shel didn't want to fork out the big bucks for the 427 S.O. as well as supply problems for the motor. I have even read cliams that toward the end of production some cars had 429's. There are also high-bread racing models that had 427 bodies and badging, but do to regulations of class engine size used small blocks and one with a 390. I wouldn't let if worry you too much. Get a good book on the history of SAI and you will find all kinds of interesting mixes. As for the "It's not the right motor" crowd, most of that kind of talk is out of jealousy. Remember also you have a replica. You can do with it what you want as long as it makes you happy. I have spent a lot of $$ and time on my build trying to create a perfect copy (which it is not) of a competition version car. It makes me happy, so I could careless what others think (unless they like it of course ).



---Mike

[avanti-176]

Oh Boy,

LET THE FESTIVITIES BEGIN.........!!


if you are happy with it, who cares? just leave the hood down and tell them what ever you want . 80% wouldn't know the difference anyways.

Dan

[jmarsey]

Change the badging. It sounds like you are happy with your 289. They are great little power plants and more original than any 302 /351. Tweak up the 289 is my vote.

John

[Ron61]

I vote with John. If you are happy with the car don't worry what anyone else thinks. I have a 351 in mine and I just put 351 badges on it and that took care of the questions. One friend of mine had a 351 and 427 badges and he was so upset at a car show once when we were parked next to each other that he came home and changed his badges to 351s. Some guy that was drunk made about 15 trips between our cars which were about 10 feet apart and finally asked Joe why his 427 looked exactly like my 351. I like the 289s and think they are great.

Ron

[Tom Kirkham]

The very last of the coil spring Cobra production were the COB cars. They were sold to Europe with the 427 narrow hip bodies with 289 engines. Also the AC MKIV had a coil spring chassis with a 302. This is a very good combination. I would be reluctant to make a running driving car that you enjoy and turn it into a project...

Also MOST of 427 Cobras had 427 in them. Only about 100 of the approximatly 350 cars built had 428s in them.

[mj_duell]

Tom,
I stand corrected. I just rechecked the numbers and you are correct (approx 110 428 cars, not counting engines being switched to 427). So MOST were 427. I was just trying to help him out.



--Mike

[Tom Kirkham]

A Ford 429 will simply not fit in a Cobra without tremendous modifications to the car.

CSX3358 was shipped to Shelby in the last shipment of cars that arrived in the United States. (It is owned by a good friend of mine in San Francisco.) I have spent a lot of time with CSX 3358. It has a 427 Tunnel Port in it now—it originally had a 427 MR engine in it. The invoice date from AC to SAI was dated 14 Dec 1966.

To put a 429 in an original Cobra would have required modifications to the foot boxes, motor mounts, exhaust system, throttle linkage, suspension calibrations (due to the increased weight) etc. It was never done by Shelby, or AC. The first production vehicles, I believe, with a 429 in them were made in 1968.

[mj_duell]

Tom,
I am only relating what I have read. According to passages written in "Cobra: The Real Thing!" by Trevor Legate there were. I would never argue with the master, however, there were one off's built by AC and SAI. There were executive cars as well with automatics as far as the book shows. Now, these of course cannot be add into the list of 427 SC and street cars, but that does not mean they were not produced. You will admit SAI built a 390 version for a racing (I have the original Shelby archive book) so why is it hard to believe the other possibilities? If I am wrong so be it.



--Mike

[Cracker]

Regarding your intial questions about cube envy I wouldn't change a thing. I have two BB (427 SO & 428 w/ Webers IDA's) but would be the first to tell you to stick with what ya got! Here in Atlanta we probably have the fiercest following of Small Ball owners found anywhere. I respect what they can do from a performance perspective but also understand the history and heritage of SB's & Cobra's. Next time someone gives your the rye eye over your engine tell them it's a rare reverse hybrid version that will run circles around the BB fella's! If that doesn't help follow it up with "go to he$$ and where's yours? Best wishes and keep what youv'e got!

[flipper35]

I don't know if swapping the badges would help much. Mine has a sb Mopar angine with Mopar Performance in place of the 427 emblem and people still ask if it is a kit.

As I am not a purist, I would agree with Tom. If you like the car as is don't change it. No matter what you do people will have an opinion on it. Even if you have an original or a continuation one.

Now if your wife want's a big block, that's onother story.

[goaztecs]

OK, great responses. If I leave the 289 alone for now, I think I'd like to remove the "427" fender badge. I think it's false advertizing, and I'm not a great liar either.
There is a fender badge that was meant to be used on the 289 (narrow body) Cobras that just says "Powered by Ford". Have any of you small blockers used this on your wide-bodied cars instead of the "427" fender badge?

[Mr.Fixit]

The fender badge refers to the Body style not what is under the hood. You have a replica of a 427SC cobra. The fender badges have just as much a place on your car as the knock-ooffs, stripes, sidepipes and everything else. 99% of looky lou's don't know a 427 from a 351, and those that do any say derrogatory comments are just jealous they don't have a fine replica with a nice smallblock.

[Ron61]

Brent,

The question is it real or not is going to be asked regardless of what you put on the car. I made mine as far from original as I could and still have it resemble a Cobra and every person that sees it asks if it is real. Also another question that I get asked a lot ,"Is that the same kind of car that James Dean got killed in?" If they get nasty about the car when talking to me I just tell them that when they build theirs to build it to suite themselves, I never built mine to make them happy.

Ron

[Tony Radford]

There IS an alternative option.

[goaztecs]

; )

[TheSaint71]

LOL I HATE THAT! People always like the bigger motors, but I tell you... keep the small blocks! I prefer them, and done right you can woop most big blocks in the 1/4 mile! I jsut watched a guys drag video on the FFCobra forum and he has a 289 cobra and with NO POWER ADDERS did a 10.74 quater mile and the thing sounds like a million bucks! If you stroke it do a 306, or 331... but no big block man, you got one nice lil toaster! Nice light weight small v-8 tuned up really rules... Personally I think im gonna due a turbo'd 306.

Anyway go to this thread it has the 10.74 289 video...

http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimateb...;f=29;t=000081


hope this helps

jamin

[capfel]

Some people have no respect at events and this one may take the cake..

After telling someone that my engine is marked 427 but is really a 428, he tapped the body and asked "is it aluminum?"

What was he thinking? I politely sprayed wax all over his hand as I replied. He was walking with a cane and I didn't want him to fall and scratch the car to get his answer.

Chuck