What costs so much on a $14,000 engine??

[mattr762]

I helped my dad rebuild several chevy engine 15 years ago and I remember him say it only costs about $1000. You could buy a complete 350 for a couple hundred, have it machined, bored, purchase the rebuild kit for $50 and we assembled it our selfs.

A quick look at jeg.com and I see you can buy a 544ci BB crate engine that produces 540hp for $7500 and has a 2 year warranty. Or a 466 BBF with 525hp for $6000.

So, does any one have the break down cost of a $14,000 engine. Just wanting to see what the expensive parts are. Is a lot of it just the chrome bling bling or original appearance? Labor? Are you paying for that magic number "427"?

Also what makes a $14,000 engine any better than a $6000 engine (for a street driver/ weekend racer)?

[KobraKarl]

Matt

I guess if Ford made 427 crate engines they might be similarly priced......its a volume thing.


street driver .......weekend racer......probably nothing.

KK

[Tony Radford]

Just because an engine comes with a warranty doesn't mean it's going to hold up under stress. I can't believe that a crate motor gets any where near as much "hands-on" attention at a hand-built one does from a specialty engine shop. There's something to be said for the balancing, blue printing, hand porting/polishing, port matching etc. etc. Maybe you get some of that with the crate engines, but I would doubt it at the prices they charge. The big guys operate as a mass-production house and have what they consider to be "acceptable losses" when it comes to field failures. Over the past two years I've been participating on this forum, I've heard some crate motor successes and plenty of hard knocks. Even if they stand behind their products, an installed engine is a hard thing to turn around for replacement or major repair.

Just a thought.

[DC COBRA]

MATT
Ijust recently got my motor from KIETH CRAFT, it is a427 windsor that cost 14000.00. To give some kind of breakdown I will try.
Ford 392 stroker delivered tax included, roughly 7500.00. Now add 4200.00 dollars for aluminum block. Roller hydraulic cam, Davinci carb, electric water pump, fully dressed ready to install. Then have it dynoed tune with fresh oil change so as when you install it, nothing to do but plumb it and wire it then it starter button and go drive. 14000.00 seems almost too cheap then. Also having a quality engine shop assembled by an individual you can trust as opposed to several UAW workers-PRICELESS----

[Clois Harlan]

Matt,

When you are ready to buy your engine we have one of the best shops around. Give Kent Kanady a call at Carbone' Machine Shop here in Tulsa at (918)835-6596. I was in there Monday and he was preparing 3 race engines for a racer in Montana, and was working on a 460 for a racer in California.

Steve Carbone' was a NHRA World record holder in Top Fuel for many years. They build great race engines or they can build you a great street engine. Prices are very fair. I have thrashed my engine hard at six races and it hasn't lost a pound of oil pressure or power. I can attest to them standing behind their work even if it is your fault (I plummed my oil lines backwards once).

I let them build my 428 CJ and they machined my block, heads, manifold, provided TRW rods, pistons, pins, cam, solid lifters, timing gear and chain, all bearings and gaskets and balanced and assembled the whole engine for around $3,000.00. I had already bought the aluminium heads and Sig Erson roller rockers. I had to take it to another shop for the Dyno (they didn't have the right set up for a FE to dyno.


Tell Steve or Kent I told you to call and they might charge you even more.


Clois

[RedBarchetta]

I think you can save quite a few clams by piecing an engine together yourself, and then working with a local machine shop/engine builder to assemble it and break it in properly. But the "turn key" engine builders offer a valued service to those that don't want to run around (or can't afford the time to) trying to piece it together. And their consistency produces a (arguably) better product. It's a big market and there is room for players at all levels.

[jamvan]

Matt:

For a top quality built 427 (complete with all the bells and whistles), I would be happy to only pay $14K. I am currently pricing out an aluminum engine for a CSX4349 (which I am awaiting delivery on from Shelby) and I am looking at a number over $20K.

It is the old story, supply and demand. I also agree with DC Cobra, $14K sounds cheap to me. Make sure you check out the builder, go with the best top quality builder you can afford.

Best of Luck

jim

[John 550]

My nos side oiler is over 25k .
I would hope it holds up as good as my UAW chevy 350
in my 93 surb w/170k on it that I beat the piss out of every day .

[mattr762]

I also agree with DC Cobra, $14K sounds cheap to me.

I come from the background of Do-it-yourselfers, so I always try to find the cheapest/best way to do things. So $14K sounds high when I can get a crate for $3K to $7K. I understand that an aluminum engines price would be higher because I can get the Grand Daddy of all chevy engines (ZL1 454 complete) for $18,000.

So, is the answer to my main question that a 427 engine is more original so it's valued more?

I would also think that the engine is the greatest loss when selling a car. I've seen so many cars (superformance mainly) on Cobra Country saying something like "I've got $65,000 in the car and will sell for $45,000."

I'm willing to bet they could take the $14,000 engine out and still sell the car for $35,000.

Am I way off base?

- Matt

[mattr762]

My nos side oiler is over 25k .

and I am looking at a number over $20K.

Does you have the cost break down of your engines?

Thanks

[DC COBRA]

Matt

I tried to answer your questions by explaining the route I took for a '427' engine, yes it cost me 14000.00. Yes I wanted a 427 cubic inch motor, I also wanted it to make 600 plus horsepower, it did. Ialso wanted a complete brand new assembly. As oppose to answering your questions, a 427 engine can be built for less than 14000.00, so it is not about the magical number as for the cost being so high. Mainly the 427 is not really a base sort of engine, so to produce one, parts can get rather high depending on customer's needs or wants. As to your pricing on the crate motors, keep in mind that they advertised them as having remanufactered parts, not totally new and not totally dressed. Also the crate motors you talk about use 460 (385 seires) components, which are common, easier to produce a cheaper engine.

[thorconstr]

It's called "Charging what the market will bear". I'm sure Arias isn't pumping out Shelby aluminum blocks at the same rate crate engine manufacturers are.

[avanti-176]

OOOOOH Boy!
I feel another REAL vs Replica argument brewing.

As I recall wern't the ZL1 motors introduced in '69 and wern't they 427's rated at 550 hp but rumored to be more like 600 hp.

So it seems to me that a 510 hp 454 zl1 is not a real ZL1 but a fake, copy, replica motor and also not as good

also isn't Chevy making a 500 something cube crate motor w/720 hp?
seems to me like that would be the GRANDADDY chevy crate motor .

anyway as I am learning the hard way Ford FE motors are way more expensive to build up than Chevys and that simply comes down to supply and demand.

Have a good one,
Dan

[stengun]

Howdy,

Originally posted by avanti-176

As I recall wern't the ZL1 motors introduced in '69 and wern't they 427's rated at 550 hp but rumored to be more like 600 hp.


Have a good one,
Dan

GM was well know for overrating their engines. The '68 1/2 428CJ Mustang was rated at 335hp and were 1/2 second quicker through the 1/4 mile than the 550hp 427 Camero. Go figure!

The only way you will see/feel/notice the difference between a $14,000 custom engine and a properly assembled home workshop engine that cost$7,000.00 would be by looking at the look on your wife's face when she sees the bill.

If I bought a crate engine I would take it apart and double check everything. I've got a copy of the '04 Ford Motorsport catolog and there is a 351W stroker 392cid/430hp w/ GT-40 aluminum heads for $6,500.00. Except for the new block, I can build 392cid strokerw/ 470hp for $4,500.00. If I shop around for parts, I can do it for $4,000.00, if not less.

I can think of other places/ways to spend +$2,00.00 and you'll never know the difference except in more power and a fatter wallet.

Paul

P.S. I have a 480hp 351C that only cost $2,800.00 to build, and that includes I-beam rods and forged pistons.

[Excaliber]

How about 427 heads/intake on a 428 block? Virtually no one would be able to spot the difference.

Ernie

[SCOBRAC]

Lemme see. The last NOS side oiler I saw was 35k fully assembled. But it was a tunnel port motor. A typical NOS 427 will cost the following...

$5,500 covered the virgin block.
$6,000 for the NOS heads
$3,500 for the NOS intake and carbs
$2000 for a NOS crank
$1900 for NOS rods and pistons
$1200 for NOS sodium filled valves, valve train
$800 for fasteners, head bolts
$1200 for NOS Aviaid oil pan, windage tray, pick up
$250 NOS HV/HP oil pump

$1200 in machine work, block
$800 in machine work, heads

$1000 final assembly / run time

$27,750.
< 2775> Less 10% for cash
$24,975 FOB Hastings, NE

[ff2_emtb]

All engine projects are relational to what it is your are building. Obviously the more exotic the powerplant, the more $$$ it wi;ll cost. Example: Gessford Machine is building my 427 SO. I started out by buying an assembled motor off of Ebay for $6500. Out of this, we used the block, crank and rods. Everything else will be sold off. I figure I will have somewhere around $20k in it when I am done.

Now, by the same token, I also am having a Buick Stage II V6 built for my Grand National. I'm $14k into it so far and still don't have an intake, exhaust manifolds, turbo or cam yet.

Now I know for a fact that I could build a killer SB or BB Ford or Chevy for that kind of money!

But, that would take the fun out of it wouldn't it?

T.

[DC COBRA]

Matt you started this thread in the small block forum. Although you talked about big block crate motors. I bought a $14,000 motor, pretty much top of the line as far as small blocks go, $14,000 will buy a standard big block or FE from a reputable builder. Double that will get you a top of the line big block or FE from a reputable builder. Judging from the posts so far, posters can give you the costs breakdowns on standard, top of the line, small and big blocks. By the way, where does this magical $14,000 number originate from, just curious?

DON

[stengun]

Howdy,

Originally posted by SCOBRAC


Lemme see. The last NOS side oiler I saw was 35k fully assembled. But it was a tunnel port motor. A typical NOS 427 will cost the following...

$5,500 covered the virgin block.
$6,000 for the NOS heads
$3,500 for the NOS intake and carbs
$2000 for a NOS crank
$1900 for NOS rods and pistons
$1200 for NOS sodium filled valves, valve train
$800 for fasteners, head bolts
$1200 for NOS Aviaid oil pan, windage tray, pick up
$250 NOS HV/HP oil pump

$1200 in machine work, block
$800 in machine work, heads

$1000 final assembly / run time

$27,750.
< 2775> Less 10% for cash
$24,975 FOB Hastings, NE

Let's see.....

Virgin blocks can be had for $2,500.00
heads for $1,500
intake and carbs for $2,000
crank for $1,000
rods for $750
pistons for $750
valves and valve train for $800
bolts for $400
oil pan for $600
oil pump for $80

machine work for $1,000

for a total of.....$11,380.00

$24,795.00
-11,380.00

$13,415.00 total savings

The only person that will know the difference will be your wife and your billfold.

Paul

[Turk]

Stengun,
Virgin blocks for $2500?

I have been monitoring the Side Oiler blocks for sometime. I have a hard time coming anywhere around those numbers. That is going back 3 or more years.
DO you have source for these and are they available to anyone?

I will take three for three different projects.

That would be neat.