Lifter Knock?? - Page 2

Nuke427 · #21 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 06:45 PM

I've got good news and bad news. The good news is I have a very understanding family.

The bad news is there is copper/bronze metal all in the oil I drained. Also much copper in the oil pan after I dropped it and several nice size chunks of bearing lodged in my oil pickup. One of the pieces was half circle and measured a little over 2" from tip to tip. Can't see where this all has actually come from yet, atleast not from just looking up at the crank and rods. I'm going to go bust my headlights out with a hammer then I'll get back with more info.

Cracker · #22 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 06:50 PM

Sounds like it's the big end of a rod bearing with that size. Sorry I said it was unlikely earlier.

What do I win for being the first to suggest it though? Don't roll it off the cliff just award it to me and I'll fix it! Don't sweat it, last 1.5 years ago I plumbed my oil lines backwards and spun #8 rod bearing. I don't call myself "Chairman of Trial & Error" for nothing! Best wishes! You'll be spinning in no time - just not the bearings!!!!

Bruce Edwards · #23 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 06:53 PM

Don't go crazy. It spun a bearing. It is really not that big a deal. You can drop the crank and install a new one with out ripping the engine apart. If you got it before it damaged the rod.
No chance you got the engine from National Cylinder Head Exchange in Orlando? Just wondering.
If you were closer I would be happy to get right in there with you. It drives me CRAZY when someone gets stuck with a poor job. More so with an engine because I have never had one fail that I built.
Keep your head up. Think of all the fun things you are about to learn!

Nuke427 · #24 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 07:19 PM

Well the crap part for me is I'm a Reactor Operator and we are just about to start a refuel. Which means I'm going to be working 12 hour days 6 days a week for 6 to 8 weeks. I HATE messing with this crap. It seems like it's always something, even with my FFR, except most of that was my fault, i.e. screw sucked into intake. So about a 2" diameter circle would be what bearing? Rod? Cam?

Oh yeah, I don't think it cam from Orlando. I think it cam from a place called Machine Specialists, but I'm not sure, I think that was the name on my invoice.

Bruce Edwards · #25 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 07:26 PM

Just wondering as I do not have any faith in that palce as I have had to fix several of their engines in the past.
The bearing will "grow" as it gets spun out. Look for a dark spot on the rods. Or just grab hold of them one by one and try to move them. up and down on the crank. Chances are if you look close you can see one with a bit of bearing hanging out the side. If you get hung up feel free to call me. My number is on my web site and I am in the shop from 9:00-5:00 Mon-Fri. I would be more than happy to help any way I can from this distance.

Nuke427 · #26 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 07:29 PM

Thanks Bruce, I'll head back to the garage and look a little harder. I couldn't see anything odd with the rod bearings but I'll look again.

blykins · #27 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 07:37 PM

What I would worry about is if it scarred the crank journal.....More than likely it's a rod bearing....and since your description said it was coming from the passenger side, I'd check cylinders 1-4 first....

I really hate this for you. This is my worst nightmare...Wish I were closer...this isn't something that someone needs to go through by themselves....

Bruce Edwards · #28 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 07:45 PM

blykins, Right there with you on this one. Never like to see anyone get into this kind of mess with a new car and engine.

Nuke427 · #29 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:11 PM

Crank bearing, if that's what you call it. Right behind the timing chain. Dropped it and it's all scarred up, pretty bad. The next one back was a little scarred, then the third one back looks good. Why would these go bad? They're clevlite bearings, they're good aren't they?

These bearings scarred the crank pretty good. On the front bearing you can see some discoloration where it seems to get really hot.

Bruce Edwards · #30 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:23 PM

Sounds like the builder screwed up. How does the crank and the cap look? You need to look around for anything else in the pan. Say like a small freeze plug? The front bearing should not be the first to go as that is one of the first places the oil goes.
I hate to say it but you may want to pull the enigne. Sorry man.
I would make a "nice" call to the builder and who ever told you to use them for engines. You may wish to apply a bit of pressure if you feel you are not getting any place by telling them about this web ring and all the folks you can let know about how customer freindly they are if you know what I mean.

Nuke427 · #31 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:27 PM

Bruce, what could make these bearings go? I pulled the front two rod bearings and they look perfect. I don't understand how these bearings just fail for no reason. I have looked in the pan and all that's in there is shavings. All copper looking.

blykins · #32 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:29 PM

Excessive clearance is what it sounds like....the main bearing clearance is more than it should be...causing the crank to walk up and down....So is that #1 bearing the one where the chunk came out of? Don't excessive bearing clearances cause spun bearings?

I would pull the engine, take pictures, and call this place and give them seven kinds. You shouldn't have to foot the bill for stupidity. Tell them to check bearing clearances with a micrometer and a bore gauge....not a tailor's tape measure. I'm getting fired up....should probably leave.

Bruce Edwards · #33 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:47 PM

Some builder do not use quality help. I have seen some, see earlier post, that have 10 guys doing one engine and non of them seem to know what the other has done. I have seen two different size heads, one type of piston on one side and another on another, rods installed the wrong way on the pistons, two different size bearings in the same engine and on and on.
Can you tell what size the bearing that failed was? Shoud be stamped on the back of the bearing. Pull the next main cap and compair the size. Also look to see how the bearing is wearing. I have all so seen some cranks turned out of round that is to say they got tapered during poishing.
Were the bolts tight? A bearing can fail if it is to tight or if the oil flow is not up to were it should be. It can also fail if it is not installed correctly. I do not see how it could be the bearing at fault. We use Clevitte in a lot of our engines and have never had a failure.
I am really sorry to hear about all the bad luck you are having. Makes me mad and sick at the same time.
It is late on my end so I will check back with you in the morning to see what other fun things you have found.

blykins · #34 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 08:52 PM

Nuke...I'll be up for awhile if you need to vent or ask questions....

Nuke427 · #35 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 09:03 PM

Well I'm greasy enough and have many bearings and tools laying around everywhere. I've removed all but the rear bearing and all but the front two look pretty good. The front bearing was worn more on the front side. The front two bearings are the same, part number wise. I don't know what to think. I know 1267 miles was not enough to abuse these bearings. I've never raced the car or anything. Of course I've driven it pretty hard and up to 6500 rpm, but I ran my 302 FFR harder and longer than this before it met it's demise. Not happy. Thanks Bruce and blykins. I'll know something mid-day tomorrow about possible warranty info............Later.

maxrpm · #36 (**permalink**) 03-08-2004, 09:29 PM

I think that by this point it's a given that if this is the engine you will be keeping in the car you must remove it and have the whole assembly torn down. The metal you've seen in your oil has run throughout the whole oiling system and undoubtably comprimized most components, from the cam bearings on out. I think it's better to start planning your new engine(you mentioned stroker) rather that worry what caused it or who's to blame. I can tell you what caused it without even looking at it-carelessness during assembly. No one will easily accept the blame for the failure and most likely lay the blame on "abusive driving" especially if they get wind of your n2o system. You will just be stuck looking for someone to choke while your Cobra sits in pieces. You still have alot of good parts, now build YOUR motor!

RACING!-because baseball football basketball golf bowling & tennis only requires one ball. Just trying to get you to laugh...

Bruce Edwards · #37 (**permalink**) 03-09-2004, 05:00 AM

Sounds like the bearing may not have been seated. It does sound like it is going to have to be taken out cleaned up and put back together. I am sure your lifters will be full of nice little metal bits and the pump my also be bad at this point due to sucking up the larger metal bits that got past the screen.
I am not sure I would hang on the that engine. May want to see if you can give it back and start over with something else. I would be a bit worried that the machine work may have more problems. It may cost you almost as much to have it all rechecked as it would for another engine but I am not sure what you have in it.
Sorry again for all the troulble you are having. always sucks when the toy is down.
My offer still stands if I can help let me know.

Nuke427 · #38 (**permalink**) 03-09-2004, 06:37 AM

So if I don't get any results from the engine builder, what would I need to get new? Any part that came in contact with the oil? New shortblock along with rockers, lifters, rods, cam, oil pump/pickup? I don't know if I trust sending my engine back to these guys if they didn't do it right the first time, even if they are willing to try and fix.

Hotfingrs · #39 (**permalink**) 03-09-2004, 07:01 AM

Boil block, new bearing in everything, cam should be ok. oil pump should be ok, but take it apart and look for any scoring inside...new pump if there is. rods should be ok, make sure they check both ends for size, also check lifter bores for size. rockers depends on what you have, solid roller lifters clean with solvent and check, hydraulics replace. rockers same thing, rollers clean with solvent and check. also don't forget to take your oil cooler out and clean it, if you're running one, as well as the lines

blykins · #40 (**permalink**) 03-09-2004, 07:10 AM

I think I would take apart and examine it....then have the machine work done at a reputable shop....then hire someone else very reputable to assemble the engine again. Bearings are cheap....oil pumps are real cheap (I'd replace it since they're less than $45...cheap insurance)...You can keep your crank and rods more than likely. You can have the crank turned down and the rods checked. Your heads should be fine....may want to have them disassembled and tanked just in case. Your block will be fine....timing chain will be fine...and of course the top end should be fine too.....intake, carb, valve covers, etc.

I'd call to see if they will warranty any of the work or meet you half way or something....if not, send her out.