351w vs 351c

[AMiller]

I know nothing about Ford Motors to speak of but have to pick one for my Cobra project soon. They need the info for motor mounts.

I have a 351C short block but dont know its past history. I can get a 351W without much problem. Either way I will do a complete rebuild. When things are finished I want to be in the 350+ HP area. The motor will be mated to a 5 speed manual.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated

Thanks,
Aaron

[Art Burtt]

Go with the Windsor less finicky.

[casaleenie]

There is a thread in the archieves that covers this in depth...
Lots of good info....

I think one of the main reasons for going with the Windsor was parts availability....

[rdorman]

There are a couple of good threads here from before. Both are good motors. There is a larger selection of parts and at a slightly reduced price for the Windsor. Personally I prefer the Cleveland because of its heritage, designed purpose and its unique qualities. 350+, piece of cake, you are basically talking about a carefully built stock cleveland with a couple of speed parts. In a Cleveland, stock or hyper (I don't remember how to spell them!) flat tops < 9.5 to 1 with open chamber heads, stock 2V heads (match to pistons, quench style more efficient, given the normal prep, debur, 3 angle, etc), single groove valves, stock rockers (the tuffrided version), ford A341(A351?) cam, performer intake and 650DP carb and you will exceed your desires hp, motor will run and last for a very very long time, idle at 800 with a slightly rough idle and run on what ever gas you put in there.

Now how about 600HP?

Rick

[V-8]

Windsor! Lighter, simpler, cheaper, far more readily available (made for longer) and now that the aftermarket head industry has woken up to it, the Cleveland's only real advantage (heads) is gone.

[rdorman]

Unless of course you put some AFR or the four valve heads on a Cleveland! Of course, for 350HP, either Windsor or Cleveland stock heads will get you there.

Rick

[ENTDOC]

351c-much better looking(more like big block),more interesting and performance minded.351w-a me too motor. chuck

[RedBarchetta]

351w - a me too motor.

[rdorman]

LMAO!!!

I always love reading these threads! You are learning an early leason there Aaron. People, at least it seems like it around here, generally like what they have. If they didn't, they would get some thing else.

Want a good chuckle? Read what engine each poster in this thread has for a motor and then read their post!

Bottom line is you can easily do what you want with either motor. Although the Cleveland is a better looking motor

Rick

[joedeats]

The 351W is most likely your best bet, If you want a big block go with a big block not a small block that is just as heavy and exspensive as a big block. The 351C 2 valve heads are good but with so many new heads for the 302/351 the technology has really gotten alot better in comparison the 351C heads although good are old tech at least 30 plus years. The 351C 4 valve heads have ports that are just to damn big for anything but 7000 rpm road racing. So i guess either a good 351 setup or a 460 setup are the best bets.

[rdorman]

Originally posted by joedeats


The 351W is most likely your best bet, If you want a big block go with a big block not a small block that is just as heavy and exspensive as a big block. The 351C 2 valve heads are good but with so many new heads for the 302/351 the technology has really gotten alot better in comparison the 351C heads although good are old tech at least 30 plus years. The 351C 4 valve heads have ports that are just to damn big for anything but 7000 rpm road racing. So i guess either a good 351 setup or a 460 setup are the best bets.

Here are some weight for ya, long blocks, all iron:
Cleveland 550
Windsor 510
FE 650
429/460 640

True true about aftermarket windsor heads being better than the old cleveland heads, especially the exhaust side. But for 350 ponies he won't need aftermarket heads. Now if you are compairing stock to stock, then the cleveland wins hands down. If he did go that route, there are some excellent aftermarket cleveland heads as well. The 4 valve heads are overkill on a street motor. But they still work very well on a street motor that is set up for them. I have 90% of peak torque from 2000 to 5600 RPM. The 460 is the Clevelands big brother (some parts are interchangable). But it is a BIG one and can be a packaging issues at times.

Rick

[AMiller]

Thanks Guys,

I think the Windsor is going to be my choice. Now I have to decide on weather to go injected or running a carb.

If you windsor folks have some suggestions for my 351 build up I am all ears. Once I decided to not go with my beloved 360cdi/380hp Mopar I jumped out of my element. My knowledge of Ford Power goes as deep as, they used to be blue.

Thanks Again,
Aaron

[MidOHasp]

Honestly, Aaron, if you're looking for 350+ horsepower, I'd just start getting some aftermarket parts from Ford Motorsports and build up a "new" Ford 351W. Not an "aftermarket" 351WOW.

Read up on Ford Motorsports' 351 Crate. If you want to DIY, just copy that. It's good for 385 no problem. That's a good amount of power.

If you start listening to all the people here (yeah includin' me) and heeding all our advice, you're going to end up with a 351W stroked to 427, Paxton blower, Nitrous fogger, 12:1 compression, etc... and you'll end up making 8 million horsepower for 49 seconds and then poof.

I'd say most of the time if you start gettin' fancy with upgrades and performance pieces w/ that motor, you're going to start breaking the 400HP mark.

Hell, the guy who dyno'd my 408 didn't even flinch calling it a "mild street/strip motor" and we're over 500 horsepower. MILD!

We wanted 500 horsepower and 500 TQ. We got it. Tony (dyno man) was saying "but if you just tore those AFR heads off and knocked down the CNC marks, put a Weiand intake on it, put on a Holley 850DP, and knocked the heads down another 4cc, you'd be at 600. Put the RIGHT heads on (205's or even 225's in his 'humble' opinion) and a Dominator carb, and we'd be staring down the barrel of 800 HP.

There's always a way for more and more.

Duplicate the crate 351, that'll be your best bet for 350-400HP.

If it's not fast enough, pull it out and make it faster.

[ENTDOC]

351w is a me too motor.I suspect 65 percent or more replicas have one.You can look at that one of two ways,either it is the best choice or simply the easy choice. Either way it is not a bad choice but somewhat boring. I started with a 351w long block and when I saw the cleveland I traded for it,no regrets. chuck

[Sizzler]

Carrying on the tradition and in the vein of so many posts before:

the 351W because it's more 'original', being a lineal descendant of the 289. The 351C is part of an engine family that never was installed in any form whatsoever in any type of original Cobra. So, my vote would be either 351W, 302, 289 or an FE.

[wheel spin]

I have experience racing windsors and clevelands (oval track). I ran 351c 7200 rpm all season long with basically stock valve train. I never had a problem keeping it together.If I tried that with a windsor I'd have to bring a broom and some oil dry. 2 years ago broke over $30,000 worth of windsor motors and never twisted them over 6500 rpm.

[MidOHasp]

were the windsors built to wind 6500 rpm? I'm not doubting that the Clevelands are more ready for that stock, but you make it sound like the windsors are held together with balsa wood.

Don't go giving people the wrong ideas about windsors being POS's. I'm sure any poorly built motor will snap. I'm also sure that every now and then some very well built motors snap b/c of a fluke part.

But youll find thousands of people in this forum who wind their windsors tight and haven't had problem one.

Just don't want someone to read that post and say "oh wow, hey bob, those 351 windsors are NOTORIUS for breaking apart on dynos and on the race track. You can't even turn one 6500 RPM safely. They're real pieces of $hit."

It's how stuff gets started.

[Eddy K]

Both engines are good peices and will do what you want. However, I would personally pick the Cleveland because I think they look better than the Windsor.
I have had good luck with the Cleveland and have a 72 Mach 1 which I bought new with the 351C-4 barrel. 13:59 @100 mph on the 1/4 mile with no internal mods and stock cast iron intake with Motorcraft carb.

[DoubleR]

One difference with the 351 C is the sound. It is very different from the Windsors.

[Edley Rondinone]

Also, you can use the "COBRA - POWERED BY FORD" valve covers on the Windsor. Cleveland IS a good-lookin' motor!! There was some discussion years ago about which engine had better sized bearings, better oiling system, etc.