392 crate with AFR-185 heads

[ManyScalps]

I am having trouble getting a response to this question:


A recent post stated that the hp and tq figures on the Ford 392 crate motor are 430 hp and 450 lb-ft. A forum member recalled reading articles that when dynoed with AFR-185 heads, made 540 hp.

My question is this:

Does anyone know what the tq would be with these heads???


Thanks...

[John A. Simpson]

Hi MS,

The November issue of Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords has the article you're looking for. The heads had been milled to 54 cc down from 58cc for another test, otherwise stock.

HP maxed at 537 @ 5800 rpm

TQ maxed at 504 @ 4800 rpm

Victor Jr. With a Wison carb spacer

[MidOHasp]

You will find approx 530-540 for one number and right around 500 for the other. Which number is which is up to your intake, basically. I have essentially the same setup as that writeup (same heads, cam, etc... but 408cid) and instead of hte Vic Jr, I have the Air Gap RPM intake. 508HP, 544TQ at the flywheel. Looks like the numbers flip-flop by switching intakes.

[ManyScalps]

MidOHasp,


Thanks for the reply.

How is your gas mileage? I am curious to know what kind of mileage one would get with such a large motor (392-408) with such high hp and tq numbers.

Can you give me the mileage for in town driving and highway cruising?

Am I looking at 10mpg city and 15 mpg highway?


Thanks a bunch.



John,

Thanks for the heads up on the article. I will check into it.

[MidOHasp]

ManyScalps,

No problem. Good luck on the 10/15 numbers! Depends GREATLY on how you drive. I have a BG Speed Demon carb on there and it is a double pumper. It USES GAS!

I just completed a fun little 130 mile trip with mixed driving, you can draw your conclusions from my results...

Approx 40-50 miles on the interstate, cruising at 70, 2200RPM.
Approx 20-30 miles "spirited cruising" (some cruising, some accel's, etc...)
Approx 40-50 miles "hard driving" (repeated hard accelerations, higher speeds, etc...)
Approx 5 miles of idling in nasty traffic.

Got 9MPG for that whole trip. I'd say it is probably getting about 12 on the highway and somewhere around 5 when running consistently hard (but not racing).

Also, the article John talks about is available on the AFR website.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/artic...le04/A4-P1.htm

By the way...if you are looking at the AFR heads and a stroker, why, may I ask, are you concerned with Gas Mileage? I would imagine a stock 351 Crate will make plenty of power and get decent mileage if you're concerned about it. Just breaking your balls...but seriously!!

[ManyScalps]

MidOHasp,



Wow. 9 mpg average. But how does it drive? How is the power for you? Need more or would you go for less next time?

I am somewhat of a novice when it comes to engines (knowledge). I drive a 2001 Intrepid R/T with a whooping 242 hp and 230 lb ft tq. This car weighs 3650 lbs and I think the acceleration is not bad but would like another 100hp and 100 lb-ft tq. With this said, a 350 hp/tq motor in this 3650 lbs car would make me very happy. I couldn't imagine a 350 hp/tq motor in a car that weighs 1300 lbs less! Man oh man!

I have had sportbikes (CBR 600 and GSX-R 750) so I am no novice when it comes to speed. I am beginning to think a 392-408 stroker (500 hp/tq) would really be too much. 9 mpg isn't very appealing either.

I wonder what a 450hp 400 lbs ft EFI 306 or 347 would net for mileage? You think 10 city and 15 highway is possible in a 347 and 15 city 20 highway in a 306?

It would be nice to tour without too great of a worry about hitting the next gas station.


Great article. Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers

[Mike Simard]

'scalps, I don't yet know what gas mileage my new motor gets but the old one was a 375(?)hp Ford crate 351 with a dual plane and holley 750. It got about 20 mpg. I think Olthoff just did a really good job of jetting etc. Those motors also dyno closer to 400 hp.

[MidOHasp]

Many Scalps,

500+ horsepower in a 2500 pound car is ridiculous. Unless you have slicks, having more horsepower makes little difference in gears 1 and 2. I have traction in 3rd if I roll on, so I'd say 600HP or even 700 would be a LOT of fun in 3rd. I haven't had anyone actually crap their pants yet in my car, just a lot of "Oh my god, I knew it was fast, but I had NO IDEA!!" comments.

But no matter how light the car, with big fat sticky tires on the back, these guys with 800 horsepower are INDEED a lot faster than I am. It's a matter of what you want, my man!

I have this sneaking suspicion that based on your comments, you don't need to go out and drop a pretty penny on all these wonderful aftermarket pieces like AFR heads and such.

Get a 351 crate or have a pro builder build you a 351. Don't even stroke it! You don't need to and I'd have to imagine that if ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL, a non-stroked motor will last longer than a stroked one. We built ours with bulletproof parts and moderate clearances, so it should last if we take care of it.

If you got the 351 Crate (or have a builder make you the same motor basically) you will have just a shade under 400HP and it will be all you can handle or imagine driving. Seriously.

My first Cobra ride ever was in one with the 385HP crate engine and it went like this: It was so quick and sounded so sweet, I was hooked. It just seemed to have power that didn't end.

Mine is different. It's power is relentless (relative to the one with the crate). It sounds sweet but in an obnoxious NASCAR kind of way. It's like a Winston Cup motor with big fat mufflers and a much lower rev limiter. WOT under in a tunnel will make you deaf. The car slams pretty hard against 135MPH in 4th gear and I haven't had the guts to see how far 5th will go with a tall OD. Probably not much more than 150, but I just don't know.

Some people who have been around a LONG time (and claimed to have driven some hairy cars) have tried to drive the car and they did not respect its power and they basically screwed up. Sideways, scared, shut it down immediately out of fear for doing something very very bad.

To me, if your mentality is "I need some serious f'ing horsepower" maybe start at 500. If it's not enough, odds are you built it up enough to handle much more (if not, then don't do it). If that's the case, then start screwing around with it.

But, if you are of the mindset that 100 more HP in your Intrepid would be really cool, then having 385HP in your Cobra with big ol' sidepipes will make you very happy!

I have an Accord V6 coupe with the 6-speed, 240HP. It does the 1/4 mile in about 14.5 at just under 100. It's a "spirited" car and quick. Fun to drive, fun to pass people. I can't hear it over Rush Limbaugh usually, but whatever. It's enjoyable. But to me, it and the word fast should nto be in the same sentence. I needed 500 horsepower, so I built it.

I HIGHLY recommend the crate 351 or having a builder make you a similar motor. You will be MUCH happier with fuel economy and it will light up your tires nicely...

Sorry this is so long winded, but so are most of my posts. I like to explain why my opinions are what they are....

JP

[ManyScalps]

JP,


Thanks so much for all the advice. I really do appreciate it. Long winded is okay because I get you to squeeze more information out!

One of the GT40 guys over at Gt40s.com posted a video of a CAV GT40 doing a highway run. He was in top gear and started at 110mph. It took only seconds to hit 190mph and it was still pulling hard with revs to spare. He put a Ford Crate 347 in it with an EFI set up. Ford Claims 450 hp and 400 lbs-ft but it was dynoed at 507hp at the crank. Not sure what the tq figure was. I imagine your Cobra will pull a bit hard until aerodynamic drag sets in, probably at 150 mph.

On the dyno it pulled from 20-78 mph in 2.8 seconds! Incredible!

This crate motor or like you say, a built 351 would be heaps for me at this point. The 351 would produce more torque - better for the street. Even a little ole 400-450hp 306 would do it for me seeing as the car is so damn light.

Thanks again for your input. Let me know if you are interested in seeing that video of the 190mph run and I will post the link.

Cheers!

KW

[68gt500]

YES, pls. post the GT40 video link - and any other Cobra/GT40 video links you may have

[MidOHasp]

Absolutely! If you plan to hang out here at club cobra, never ask again if we want you to post a link! Just do it, man!!

Glad the advice helps.

FWIW...my father has the legal right (name's on title) to the Cobra I reference. We have equal share in it, but at the end of the day, I consider it to be his. In the next couple of years, I plan to have my "own" as well. Not because my time in that one is limited at all (I spend most of the time and miles with it, actually) but because I think variety is the spice of life.

SO...my plans are an aluminum bodied big block. Not because I want one of those necessarily more than our glass small block but why have 2 identical Cobras? I've always been partial to small blocks, I prefer their sound, and I love that they are so light. But with Shelby producing aluminum 427 blocks, hmmm...the weight thing is not so much of an issue anymore!

Plus I think when I say I like the sound of a SB better, I'm talking about equal HP. I think 500HP sounds better out of a SB than a BB.

I would be amiss in saying my plans for Cobra #2 didn't include well over 600 (probably closest to 700) HP. I will search for tires that can do that power and torque SOME justice. Then at a show, when someone says it is pretty, I can also know that it is faster than any other car there except maybe one in full drag regalia. But that car will not look like mine and will not be streetable like mine.

There is a decent market for used Cobras, 'scalps. And pulling a motor out and selling it to "trade up" is never difficult. Your tastes will change as time goes on, and that's OK.

For now, though, a 'crate' 351W will make you a very happy man.

JP

[ManyScalps]

Here it is:

http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=34859&page=1&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

JP,

700 hp BB - wow. You thinking 427 or something in the 500 range? Supercharge it?

Funny, I had a dream the other night you shipped your Cobra to me and let me drive it for a bit. 1st and 2nd we very scary but 3rd was a riot. Just spinning in 1st and 2nd. All was going well until I rolled it in 2nd. Just minor scratches on the body and the roll bar saved me!!! Strange huh?

Also, three more GT40 vids with German narration. Right click on them at the bottom and don't miss the hot lap with Derek Bell in his 956 at Nurburgring.

http://www.racing.stephan-kremer.de/Video/body_video.html

Enjoy. I'd like to read your response regarding the 190mph vid as there was a discussion on it - some saying the speedo was off. The GT40 is geared for 200mph (very tall 5th) and the driver had some revs left when he shut it down.


KW

[MidOHasp]

No plans for a blower. I'm thinking just maxing out cubes, big cam, proper intake, carb, everything. just doing it "right".

I believe the video. I was watching the striped lines going by. I always try to reference something. GT40s are aerodynamic enough for it.


At 6300RPM in my Cobra, in 5th gear, it would be doing 197. Obviously NEVER going to happen. But, if you were somehow able to cover up the big hole in the front and still cool the engine, make the car flat underneath, do something with the windscreen and passenger seat hole, etc.. etc.. etc..... it's light enough, sure it could get there!

Although I think the guy who did it is a complete idiot. 190MPH on the highway? TURK said it best....anything over 150 on a public highway is just plain stupid and needs to stop.

Save that driving for residential areas....

JP