302 H.O. Identification???

[busterc]

I was given a 302 H.O. (so the guy says)out of a 1991 Ford F-150.

It was a long block only.

I tore it down and have only found a few numbers on the block:

3m17
FISE 88
54

and one of the crank bearings has a readable number:

D.A.B.
1293E
C50E-6A338-A-B

Can you guys tell me what engine I have from that????
It has a roller cam in it also.

[Daniel Jones]

> I was given a 302 H.O. (so the guy says) out of a 1991 Ford F-150.

F-150's never got the H.O. The H.O. started as an optional engine for
the Mustang (and similar Capri of those years) and continually evolved
through the years. Most of the changes were positive, though some were
to cut cost (e.g. replacing the forged pistons with hypereutectic pistons)
or make the engine quieter (revise cam profile). The Lincoln Mark VII
2-door coupe got the engine as standard but I believe they retained the
speed density fuel injection, even after the Mustangs had switch to mass
air. Eventually, the Thunderbird got a version of the HO as well.
The Thunderbird and Mark VII versions put out somewhat less HP due to
intake and/or exhaust restrictions.

> It was a long block only.

The truck long block should be similar to an H.O. The H.O. heads were
simply E7TE truck castings. The F-150's got a milder camshaft and
more restrictive injection system, among other changes. The Explorer
and Mountaineers actually got better heads and intake (GT-40P) than
the Mustangs (except for the GT-40 equipped Mustang Cobra). How much
do you plan on re-using from the longblock?

> I tore it down and have only found a few numbers on the block:

Look for a casting number like E6SE.

> Can you guys tell me what engine I have from that???? It has a roller
> cam in it also.

All the 5.0L engines went to roller cams, even the standard passenger
cars. You'll need to check the block and head castings. Be aware
that even among H.O. engines, there were a lot of variations from
year-to-year. Compared to a standard passenger car 5.0L, my 1987 H.O.
has these differences:

forged flat top pistons (pistons are usually slightly above deck at TDC
to maximize quench, the compressed gasket provides required piston to
head clearance)
double roller timing chain
metric low tension oil rings
double sump pan with low oil level sensor
chrome plated valves
hotter roller cam with 0.440" lift
351W firing order
E7TE "truck" heads
60mm throttle body
intake manifold with larger ports (both upper and lower)
different EFI computer
cast aluminum valve covers (will work with roller rockers if
filler neck baffle removed)
true dual exhaust
different brackets and accessory locations

Dan Jones

[busterc]

Thanks for the informative reply!!

On the Crank I found the # E7AE-AA

On a Main cap # C20 EB

I still need to clean this thing up and do a better inspection.
Where are the numbers usually cast into the block? Heads?

I'm lost??? How do you rebuild a motor if you have no clue what it is??

[busterc]

Is it a good thing that this motor has a roller cam or did all 302's come out with rollers......truck and car?

[Daniel Jones]

> Where are the numbers usually cast into the block?

I think it's near where the starter bolts in. You may have to
pull the starter to read the numbers.

> Heads?

Underneath the head (gasket side) between the pushrod holes.

> How do you rebuild a motor if you have no clue what it is??

Find the casting codes then make sure you match up the parts you
take off with those you put on and measure everything.

> Is it a good thing that this motor has a roller cam or did all
> 302's come out with rollers......truck and car?

All the later 302's got roller cams. Whether that's a good thing
depends upon what sort of RPM you want to turn. I like hydraulic
roller cams as they last forever but they need good valve springs.
Do you plan on replacing the stock cam? The truck cam is likely a
low performance piece. My 5.0L HO cam was adequate for my purposes
(daily driver) so I just added a set of 1.7:1 ratio bolt-down roller
rockers with new valves springs. Are you going to stay with fuel
injection or go with a carb? The later 5.0L's don't have provisions
for a mechanical fuel pump in the front cover.

If you tell me what you plan to do with the engine (what's it going
in, what parts do you intend to replace, what sort of budget are
you on, etc.) I can probably offer some useful suggestions.

I rebuilt my '87 5.0L HO engine last Christmas and have a 1/2 finished
set of notes. If I can find the time, I'll try to put them in a form
you can use.

Dan Jones

[busterc]

Well..........
This motor is going in my 32 ford radster.

I will run an AOD trans with a stall between 2500-3000. The car probably wieghs around 2200-2400 pounds??

I want this thing to scream all the way up to 6800-7000 rpm's.
I'm not worried about "practical", I want some power and some rpm's!!

I have already bought new pistons and an X303 cam.
I am planning on getting a Weiand X-celerator intake and a Road Demon jr. 625 cfm carb.
I think I'll need a new crank, this one has some grooves cut into a few rod journals....??? We'll see...

I want to do this as inexpensive as possible but I set a $1500 dollar budget when I started. The pistons, rings and cam cost me $289, so I have $1200 to go!!??

[Daniel Jones]

> I will run an AOD trans with a stall between 2500-3000. The car probably
> wieghs around 2200-2400 pounds??

Make sure you inform the converter manufacturer of the weight. If they
assume a 3200 lb Mustang, you'll get a lower stall in your lighter roadster.

> I want this thing to scream all the way up to 6800-7000 rpm's. I'm not
> worried about "practical", I want some power and some rpm's!!
> I have already bought new pistons and an X303 cam.

The X303 cam will likely not make power to 6800+RPM. Due to the heavy
hydraulic roller lifters, you may have peak power at 6000 RPM. The
Crane roller lifters have better tolerances and will extend your RPM
but they are relatively expensive. Anderson Ford Motorsport has done
a lot of work on hydraulic roller cams with OEM hydraulic roller lifters
and has cams that will support your RPM goals with stock lifters.

If you stay with a hydraulic roller cam and carb, make sure you use a
distributor with a steel Ford distributor gear that fits the shaft.
The later EFI distributors had the right gear but have a larger shaft.
The earlier carb distributors have an iron gear that's not compatible
with your roller cam but the carb distributors require a different
diameter (ID) gear. Ford Motorsport should have what you need.

> I am planning on getting a Weiand X-celerator intake and a Road Demon jr.
> 625 cfm carb.

The Edelbrock Victor Jr. is likely a better intake for your planned
RPM range. If you stick with the X303 cam, one of the better dual planes
might be better. The best dual plane for the SBF is probably the C90X
FoMoCo intake. It was designed by Ford and marketed through the Muscle
Parts program for the 351W head conversion package. The C90X is a rare
piece but the Edelbrock Air Gap and Edelbrock Performer RPM are also
good, as are the FoMoCo Shelby lettered and FoMoCo Cobra lettered intakes.

> I want to do this as inexpensive as possible but I set a $1500 dollar budget
> when I started. The pistons, rings and cam cost me $289, so I have $1200 to
> go!!??

The stock 5.0L heads are the weak link in the build. If you have to pay for
shop labor and the heads need work (valve job, guides, etc.), you might
consider the Ford Motorsport GT40 turbo swirl aluminum heads.
www.buyfordmotorsport.com had them on sale last month for $699/pr but I just
looked and they are back up to $375 each this month. Sometimes you can get
them on Ebay for $699/pr. That's a fully assembled price with valve springs
that are compatible with your X303 cam.

Dan Jones

[busterc]

QUESTIONS:

I don't get the stall coverter/weight thing??
I thought a stall speed of 3000 was 3000 no matter what??
...............Now that I think about it, I guess less weight IS easier to push!!


With the X303 cam and lifters, is this a bad choice??
I was planning on going with 1.7 roller rockers to get a little more lift....good/bad?

The heads........That sounds like a good price.
I did plan on using the stock heads but they need all kinds of work! I also wanted to get some porting done on them. I suppose if I'm going to do all that I might as well go for something good!?!?! What type of power increase can I expect from the GT 40 heads? Can I use them out of the box, get great results and not have to upgrade later??

The crank on this engine is toast (I think) One of the rod journals has some deep grooves, looks pretty bad. SO, I now plan on getting a new crank.


THIS IS MY NEW THOUGHT PROCESS:

I'm going to build the bottom end as good as I can(within reason) with all new parts.....Crank, pistons, rods, bolts.....and probably get the GT 40 heads instead of wasting my money on the stock junk heads.

I really want some rpm's out of this thing so I need to work out the details of getting to at least 6500rpm's.

If you had a 302 and wanted:

300-350 h.p.
6500rpm's

and a completely "Nasty" sounding motor that turns heads

What parts would you put in it, on a budget , to get there???

[Daniel Jones]

> Now that I think about it, I guess less weight IS easier to push!!

Yup. The torque converter is a fluid coupling so the heavier the vehicle,
the more it slips before the vehicle starts moving.

> With the X303 cam and lifters, is this a bad choice??

The X303 cam will pick up 20+ HP over a stock 5.0L HO cam but with stock
hydraulic roller lifters, it'll peak before 6000 RPM. Depending on the
springs and lifter tolerances, you might get to 6500 RPM before the valves
float but it'll be hit or miss. With a roller cam, you do not want to
float the valves, it'll beat the little needle bearings to death.

> I was planning on going with 1.7 roller rockers to get a little more
> lift....good/bad?

Depends upon your valve springs and piston-to-valve clearance. With my
stock forged pistons, I wouldn't probably wouldn't have the clearance.
Unless you install stronger springs, the higher ratio rockers may float
the valves at a lower RPM.

> The heads........That sounds like a good price. I did plan on using the stock
> heads but they need all kinds of work! I also wanted to get some porting done
> on them. I suppose if I'm going to do all that I might as well go for
> something good!?!?! What type of power increase can I expect from the GT 40
> heads? Can I use them out of the box, get great results and not have to
> upgrade later??

The GT40 heads are worth a good 40 HP boost over the stock 5.0L HO heads.
There are better heads out there like the AFR's but the cost is higher.
The GT40's will support your HP goals and still fit the budget.

> The crank on this engine is toast (I think) One of the rod journals has some
> deep grooves, looks pretty bad. SO, I now plan on getting a new crank.

If you hadn't already got the pistons, I would have suggested one of the
budget stroker kits if you have to buy a crank anyway. Nice thing about
a stroker crank is that you can get good compression even with 64cc heads.
Check the rods for heat discoloration.

> I'm going to build the bottom end as good as I can(within reason) with all
> new parts.....Crank, pistons, rods, bolts.....

The stock crank is balanced for 50 oz-in and is the weak link. You can
rebalance the crank with a bit of Mallory metal to 28 oz-in which is
safer at the RPM you plan but it means getting a 28 oz-in balancer and
AOD flexplate.

> and probably get the GT 40 heads instead of wasting my money on the stock
> junk heads.

I would have done that when I rebuilt my 5.0L HO but my heads needed
only a valve job and valve springs. Dad has a valve grinder so the
valve job was free.

> I really want some rpm's out of this thing so I need to work out the details
> of getting to at least 6500rpm's.

If you stick with hydraulic roller cam, I'd sell the X303 and call
Rick Anderson at Anderson Ford Motorsport. He's done a lot of work on
high RPM lobe profiles that work with the Ford roller lifters. A friend
of mine does a lot of dyno work with Anderson and they've probably had a
dozen different custom cams in his 5.0L (now a 347). He can now turn
7600 RPM on stock Ford hydraulic roller lifters. Rick is secretive
about his grinds and won't tell you the specs until you actually by the
cam but trust his judgement on the grind and you'll be happy.

> If you had a 302 and wanted: 300-350 h.p. 6500rpm's

Cam as above. GT40 aluminum heads, an RPM air gap intake, windage tray
(Ford Motorsport Boss 302 tray for front pan, MPG tray for 5.0L dual
hump pan), roller timing chain, blueprinted stock volume oil pump or
Mellings high volume pump (the high volume pump might be necessary with
the Anderson cam), high compression pistons. A Victor Jr might make a
few more HP up top but will give up some torque down low. Might not
matter with your light roadster.

Note that Ford rates it's GT40 aluminum headed 302 crate motor at
345HP with a B303 cam, so your HP goal is entirely reasonable.
That's with the X303 heads. With the Y302 heads, it's down 20HP.

> and a completely "Nasty" sounding motor that turns heads

That's mainly a lobe center/duration and muffler thing.

> What parts would you put in it, on a budget , to get there???

What compression do your pistons yield with 64cc heads?
What are the lift limits (due to depth of valve notch reliefs)?

Dan Jones

[busterc]

I think I've bitten off more than I can chew............

My pistons are Speed Pro, part# H273CP

9.0 - 1 with 58.2cc heads........I have no clue how to convert it
to 64cc??

Lift Limits?????? The valve reliefs look deep but I don't know?

I can still sell these pistons and go with a Stroker kit......I need it all anyway?? I would probably be safer that way instead of mix-matching everything although it might blow the budget out the back door!!!

Is it as easy as buying a stroker kit and drop it in??
What about any block work needed???

[Daniel Jones]

I'm heading out of town on business and will probably be without web access for a couple of weeks. I'll try to get back to this when I return
Dan