Intake Manifold Suggestions For 351w Based 427

[Dustin Mustangs]

I did a search for this and couldn't find any answers. We have a windsor based 427 built around a Dart block. For more details and a dyno chart go here . We are obviously quite happy with the outcome of this engine, but now that winter is more or less here (damn michigan!) and we're not driving it we are looking over the combo with a finetooth comb. A part that we seem to be questioning is the Victor Jr. intake manifold. There are two major concerns.

First, is this 351w manifold designed with a 351ci engine in mind? If so, is running this on a 427 a bad move?

Second, the rev limiter is set a 6,400 rpm. The Vic Jr. 351w powerband is advertised at 3500-7500. Is this mismatch a possible problem??

These two issues seem to potentially counteract each other if both my above assumptions are correct. Feeding a 351 at 7500 is hardley the same as feeding a 427 at 7500 rpm so maybe this manifold is a good choice for our combo. Also, as you can tell from the linked dyno chart, the Hp never peaked. The funding party in this project is a little nervous about going any higher with it rpm wise, so we are trying to get the peak down into our powerband without changing anything drastic. Not that we need anymore low end torque or better driveability, just maybe some more average HP between say 2000rpm and our 6400rpm redline would be nice if possible.

Anyone care to offer an opinion on this one way or another??

How about any other manifold suggestions for this combo???

[TerrysSPF]

Dustin': Saw your videos at the strip. Very sweet! Were you launching in 1st or 2nd gear? What tranny / gears are you running?
From the build sheet (and your MI location) it looks like an Eric H. engine to me. I would stick with the Vic Jr. Tried and true intake for SB strokers, and Eric builds a hell of an engine.
You don't need to change Intakes.......you need to change the chip on your rev limiter! Thats a wind 'er up SB stroker my man (and well built!), not a 6000rpm BB. Jeeez, I have my MSD rev limiter set where YOURS is and I have an FE!

[Rick Parker]

May I suggest you try the Super Victor. It was developed specifically for the stroker (larger cu in) applications of this very engine. It will have a larger plenum and allow for a little more top end charge.



http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

Good Luck

Rick

[Dustin Mustangs]

Thanks for the speedy replies!

Terry-
Haven't tried launching in anything but first. That is an interesting idea, we normally have traction issues well into third at the strip. We are considering some drag radials for next year, but are worried about what will happen to the driveline. By the way, grearing and tranny info can be found at the link I posted. And yes, Eric did build our engine. We had some issues with it, but Eric stood behind his product and got it all worked out for us...hopefully for good.

So that's one vote for raise the limiter/leave the manifold and one vote for a bigger manifold (super vic jr)...interesting. I imagine the larger manifold should also be accompnied with a raised limiter to take full advantage. This rev limiter change doesn't really suprise me, but sometimes it just helps to hear someone else say it.

Are there any non-Edlebrock manifold options?? I can't really say I'm a fan of those guys...

Also, are there any dual plane manifolds that can keep up with a 427??

Any other related thoughts are also welcome

[sllib]

Dustin;
Before you spring for a new manifold, why don't you try porting the Vic. Jr. a little and, if you have the clearance, a carb spacer to give you a little more plenum? Also, like Terry suggested, bump your limiter up to 7K.
Bill Stradtner

[Burgs]

Dustin,

Was that motor put together locally, and if so, where can I get one?

Brad

[Dustin Mustangs]

Not exactly local, but here's some info on the builder if anyones interested:

Performance Engineering
2681 Morgan Lane
Ross OH, 45013
513 738 5001
pecobra@aol.com

If you do end up contacting Eric, tell him Paul from Grand Haven sent you...

Keep the suggestions coming...I'm listening!

[Mike Simard]

Someone on this group changed to a Super Victor during dyno tuning and reported a definate horsepower increase. I can't remember who it was. I'm sure that there is some more HP on the top end to be gained but my question is drivability and if it suffers noticably. I'm in the same boat as you with a healthy 427 cu in engine and tiny little Victor jr runners but I'm hesitant to change yet for fear of fuel slopping around the engine at low rpms. I will change to a Super someday, if you do will you please post your results?

[TerrysSPF]

Dustin: I also have the TKO tranny w/ 3.73 rear. 1st gear is pretty useless so when I go to the strip I launch in 2nd. Give it a try, I'll bet you drop a few tenths off your time. I'm thinking of going with the new TKO600 trans and dropping down to a 3.54 rear (or even lower). Much better gear ratios on the TKO600.

Did you have an issue with Edelbrock in the past? I don't know...I'd still stick with the Vic Jr. As Bill suggested, try some port work and a spacer. The Super Victor will only move the power band even HIGHER on the rpm scale which would really make your 6000rpm rev limiter useless. Sounds like you are trying to get the power to come on sooner (by your suggestion of a dual plane) so you can keep your rev's lower. Correct?? You could try the Performer RPM or the Air Gap RPM which has a power band between 1500-6500 (right in your wheelhouse with that 6K limiter!). You would most likely loose some HP on the top end but gain some Torque down low, and it would come on sooner. I have the Performer RPM on my 427 because I do mostly "street" driving and I like the awsome torque down low. The problem with having a lot of low end TQ on the track however (especially in these cars with NO traction) is getting it to hook up. It's fun being able to cruise town and "blip" the throttle and break them loose anytime I want, but that's not what you want on a 1/4 mile run. You want traction, and with the Vic Jr intake bringing on the HP/TQ gradually as you climb up the rpm's is perfect for racing these light cars down the 1/4.

Just my .02 cents anyway.

[CowtownCobra]

I have an edlebrock RPM Air Gap intake that I used when the engine was 351 ci, I was very happy with the torque response, and I plan to use it again when the motor is stroked out to 408 ci. I'm going to check with my engine builder to see if it needs any additional porting or flow work. A victor jr won't fit under my hood.

[RACER X #99]

Dustin,
I agree with these guys raise your rev limiter and enjoy that ass kicking sb. I have a 408 Dart and shift at 7,500 when on the track which is the only place I drive. I also think the Jr. is a good high rpm manifold.

Good luck with that Dart I think you made a good choice.

www.clubcranky.com

[SCARRY]

Dustin, I have the same engine from Eric in my SPF and a couple of things that I have learned. The little air cleaner is very restrictive. If you check the K&N web site they have a formula to calculate filter area required. The oval that Eric puts on is less than half what K & N recomends. The issue as you can see is not a lot of room. I put on a 14 x 3 with a drop base and it is a lot closer to what the engine needs.

Another item is the SPF pipes cost you about 50 HP. When Eric dynos the engine it is with out air filter or the pipes. There are some that are working on pipe upgrades that should help this issue.

Also In that our motors have the Hyd. Roller cam I would not go over the 6400 that you have. The lifters are heavy and that is about the safe limit.

Other than that the Drag Radials will help. I know of a couple of guys that use them and they work pretty good. I have not done it yet, but will. Also alot of the guys are going to 3:08 or 3:27 Rear Gears, and they all have liked the change.

I think this is a great combination for a small block and it can play with the big blocks very well.

[Dustin Mustangs]

Thanks for all the suggestions. It's really nice to hear what other people run and the experinces/opinions that they have (certainly when they're driving our exact setup). I guess that's why I like these forums so much!

Scarry seems to be thinking along the same line that we are (and our builder for that matter) as far as rev limiters go on a hydraulic roller motor. Believe you me, there is a huge temptation to wind this thing out and actually we did for a while. Lets just say 7k was fun while it lasted but we quickly ran into problems that may or may not have been rpm related, hence our apprehension to jump back into that game. This is why there is some thought of lowering the powerband on this badboy with a dual-plane manifold or something similar so it will peak before our current redline.

[TerrysSPF]

There's a guy on this forum that has a set of headers on his SPF that only looses about 5HP. His name is Eric Brown and we passed a few e-mails back and forth when I was considering ordering a SB stroker a couple years ago. I think he may have sold his car but if I can find the info he gave me on the shop that builds the headers / sidepipes, I'll post it here. Eric H. built his engine as well (418 stroker w/ 550HP).

I would keep the engine set up just the way it is. I know how you feel about over revving (scary!) but if you go to a dual plane intake I think you'll be sorry about the HP you'll loose on top. Switch over to drag radials to get out of the hole better. I think the biggest changes you could make (that would definately show up on your time slips!) would be to the tranny and the rear gears. The TKO600 is the way to go. MUCH better spacing and gearing for these light little cars. Even makes 1st gear usuable!