351C or 351W

[rdorman]

I completely agree, you are being nit-picky Sorry, just having some fun. Please substitute 'modified production pieces' in place of the word 'stock'. When i put the word stock in quotes, what you said is exactly what I was trying to infer, that the crank is a off the shelf factory piece modified for the application.

On the 10,000 rpm motor, the rods where never stock pieces, modified or other wise. Aluminum rods where used. Stock rods can be massaged for 7 but not 10!

Now for the 7000 rpm motor, just bolts, polish the beams, peen them, suitable pistons and careful assembly and machine work is all you need. Pretty much standard stuff when constructing any performance engine. Oiling mods are also pretty standard fair when building a performance Windsor or Cleveland. You don't even need the four bolt block.

Sorry for the confusion!

[DavidNJ]

One thing that is a lot different now then in the 60's is the availablity of aftermarket parts. Blocks, heads, cranks, rods, pistons, etc. Back then, custom pistons were expensive, rods even more so, heads rare and block non-existent. Now, crank, rods, and pistons are so inexpensive it is hard to justify not using new parts. Ditto heads. That leaves the blocks. And for a serious performance effort, unless the rules restrict it, most builders I know use aftermarket blocks (except for GM LS and Ford Modular motors, for which they don't exist). Please let me know if your experience is different.

[COBRA406]

David,
You are correct. Availability of aftermarket parts, particularly blocks, heads,
pistons, cranks etc., most of which have engineered out the weak points
in the production stock parts have made building a stronger performance
engine easier. The Windsor is a good example. The Cleveland has all except
the block as of right now, but a new, improved block is in the process of
being built and should be available within the next calender year. However,
the Windsor is a much more proven application due to these aftermarket
parts availablility for a few years now. And, we acknowledge, the Cleveland's
a rather limited market, comparitively speaking. The 335 series is a good
alternative for anyone with a stockpile of parts or a restoration project.
Musclecars and Panteras for example. The limited but profitable market is
out there for these applications. As far as cobras go, its just an alternative
for those of us who want something different.
Bob T.

[David Hodgson]

Originally Posted by COBRA406

THere is lots of interest out there
and with the Aussies' love affair with the Cleveland, there are plenty of
aftermarket parts here and there available if one wants to pursue it. Bob T.

Love affair aarrgh, the big fat lump of a thing was thrust upon us by the very considerate heads at Ford who probably spent too much tooling up for production and in an economy like ours had to see it out.

The Clevo (335 series) was the only Ford V8 here for about 14 yrs, from '70 untill about '84 when Ford deleted V8's from from all passenger vehicles, then after a about a 4 year V8 drought introduced the 5.0 Windsor. We call the 302 and the 5.0's Windsor's because we also did a 302 version of the Clevo. Fully dressed this is a very good looking engine, but without alloy heads etc, very heavy.

Hence plenty of go fast bits. The 302 heads were 2V closed chamber and were essentialy the same castings as for the 351 and there were plenty of them, but most guys thought bigger was better and wouldn't settle for anything less than the 4V's

Under the hood of most late 80's and early 90's Cobra replica's here, you will find either a 351 C or 289 and 302 w. I don't know of any FE's and there are quite a number of 385's, mostly 429 Motec injected Robnell replica's.

Unfortunatly we aren't allowed as much free choice as you guy's, currently we have to comply with Euro III emissions levels, which means we have basically 2 options, the Ford 5.4 quad cam, again big and heavy, or a lot of guys, whom we refer to as the Dark Siders, are using the LS1 5.7 Chev. And I hate to admit it, theve got great output, 400hp, in standard trim, in a compact and lightweight package.

[COBRA406]

David H.,
I guess I used the term "love affair" inappropriately. Sorry for that, but the
forums for Clevelands I hang around all show some loyal support down under
for the Clevo. Guess maybe there is little choice for Ford loyalists there but
you all really get the job done performance wise and your performance parts
for the Clevo are all the best available quality wise. I know from reading that
you guys are up against some pretty strange emissions laws, and it makes
it very hard to build a cobra with what you want. I know you all can make
those V8s really scream! Dark side or not, good luck on your project (s).
Bob T.

[David Hodgson]

Bob, no appology required, it's like you said - kind of a forced love affair. If you were a Ford guy here in the 80's & 90's, you had no choice but to be loyal to what was dished up, and make the most of it, and that's what we did.

Back on the point of the original thread, unless your building a very close "replica", you should feel free to use what suits yourself. Because of our limited choice due to emissions laws, some guys have even had great success with 4.0 litre Lexus engines, and even better with turbo's.

I've got a 302 Windsor in mine, pushing about 310hp. Does me just fine.

Dave

[double ugly]

Originally Posted by jetenginedoctor

Torque is more a matter of compression ratio and cam timing than anything else. I'm sure I can build either engine with equal torque just as easy.



That's not a very authentic engine. To be "authentic," it'd need to be a side-oiler, and that one's not. Just the induction alone to be "authentic" would cost more than $6k. Also, just because that engine is "rated" at 435 HP, doesn't mean it's a safe bet that it actually makes it.

BK

Didn't the 428 Out number the 427 SO?

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by double ugly

Didn't the 428 Out number the 427 SO?

Huh? In what regard????? What exactly are you asking?

BK

[double ugly]

Weren't there more 428's in the 65-7 cobras than 427 SOs.
John

[jetenginedoctor]

Ah, gotcha. . .

I have no idea. My whole point was regarding originality in-so-far as the desireable "original" configuration rather than the more common (and less costly) engine configuration.

BK

[jmarsey]

BK,

The “desirable original configuration”, as you put it, is by choice, not desirable to some of us. Also, building a non-“desirable original configuration” never saved me a dime. Keep in mind, there are many examples of “original.”

[jetenginedoctor]

And I agree with you 100%!!! That's why my car will be small block powered, be it with a Cleveland or Windsor based engine. Most big block engines you'll see have a torque curve that starts very strong but rapidly decreases. That's a just a recipe for wheel spin.

BK