289 vs. 351 w ?

[chopperBob]

any thoughts between these to motors
what is a better starting point if im going to put good heads on either ?
ive been into smallblock chevy for so long i dont know where to start with a smallblock ford HELP

[Ron61]

Depends on several things. If you are going for originallity, then the 289 would have to be the engine of choice. If you want more power and may want to stroke it, then I would go with the 351. They can be stroked all the way out to 427 and will make a lot of power. Mine is at 416 and it has been very reliable as I have never had a problem since I had it built in 1997. The 289 will make 400 horse but that may be pushing it if you plan to drive it hard. That was one of the reasons that Shelby kept their 289s at 390 horse was they tended to break when pushed over the 400 horse. Bur remember, they were driving them hard and the technology back then wasn't as good as it is now. Most of the small block crate engines are based on the 351.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Leave the 289 blocks to those guys that are 'serious' about building a more authentically detailed car. Which IS a worthy goal and one I admire.

A 289 dropped in a 427 body style, is like, well whats the point? What car are you trying to replicate with THAT setup? Got an FIA style body (289 car)? Gonna use a 289 engine? Cool... now don't blow it by putting in some wierd interior (crushed velvet anyone?) or modern wheels on it. If the BODY, interior, wheels, roll bar, dash, etc. are NOT 'correct' you might as well go with the 351. A more modern, easier to get parts for, makes more horse power and all around better choice from a mechanical standpoint.

Even if I was building a really nice detailed FIA 289 style car I'd be tempted to use a 351 Windsor with 'stamped steel' valve covers and make it 'look like' a 289 as much as possible

[Dangerous Doug]

Check the emissions regulations in your home state before you buy. In CA, anything after 1966 in the block date code means you have to put all the smog equipment on it---just as it was originally---and it has to pass the year block emissions requirements. Alternatively, you can register with SB100 but those 500 certificates go pretty fast. The 351W was not available in 1965.

One other question is what you are building. If you're building a 289 FIA then a 289 would be "correct". Lots of guys building the 427 S/C model use stroked 351's (427 seems to be the stroked displacement of choice). But beware: if you're building a high-end replica (ERA, Kirkham, Shelby) you should put in the "corrrect" engine (be it 289 or 427 SO) or your resale value will suffer.

DD

[WarrenG]

Like everyone else, I'd have to know what you're building before offering a specific opinion. That said, I agree, if you're building an FIA or Slab Side, I'd go with the 289. They can be easily stroked to 331 and provide almost 400 HP and still run on undoctored premium gas.
If you're building a 427 Cobra, you might consider the 428 it's just as original as a 427 SO and you should be able to get an old enough block to avoid emission issues (if that's even an issue in your case). It's also a lot less expensive than the 427 SO. Not as much HP as a 427 SO, but should be enough for anything except serious competitive racing. Personally, I like it better than the small block option for a 427 replica. Not only more original "looks" wise, but also possibly more original in the way of performance.

[chopperBob]

im looking for some power
i dont care if the motor looks original or acts original
i have the car already with a 351 w it is just lacking in the power dept
i have a 289 set aside for building or i can put the heads on the 351 in the car im looking for the higher h.p. more dependable motor

[LMH]

The 351w is good base to build an engine from. If it were me, I'd pull the it and build it. Sell the 289 to raise some of the money you'll need, buy a mild stoke kit (393) and a set of aluminum heads.
Larry

[jmarsey]

Now that you have been educated with "cobra engine choice 101" put your time and money into the 351.
Your dollars will go farther and more reliably in the power department.

Good luck, John

[69 Mach I]

my only comment is that there is a greater variety of after market parts offered for the 351 compared to the 289. You will have more options with respect to heads, intakes, engine components, etc., with the 351.

[chopperBob]

ok so ive decided to stay with the 351
now im in the process of matching engine parts
does anyone have the edelbrock rpm heads intake and cam
what kind of numbers are you getting ?

thanks again guys Bob

[Three Peaks]

You will do better by figuring out what you want to do with the engine and buying the parts to complement each other- usually from different manufacturers.
On my 351/393 I'm using Edelbrock Vic. Jr. heads, Comp Cam XE294 cam, Scorpion roller rockers, Weiand Stealth intake Manifold, and a Holley Street Avenger 670 Carb.
After looking at the Edelbrock sets, they look fine for a a mild engine build but you can do better by opening up your research a bit- IMHO.

Bob

[69 Mach I]

Originally Posted by chopperBob

ok so ive decided to stay with the 351
now im in the process of matching engine parts
does anyone have the edelbrock rpm heads intake and cam
what kind of numbers are you getting ?

thanks again guys Bob

I have the RPM heads and they a great street head. I also have the RPM Air Gap intake. I also have forged FT pistons at 11.0:1 CR and a Holley 650 carb. I opted for a different cam (crower grind 15237) based on my shop's recommendation to stay away from Edelbrock cams. I am putting down 316 rwhp behind a C6 auto, which gives me 405 HP at the flywheel with this set up. My power band is 2500-6000 with these components.

If you were to get Vic Jrs., you could see 435-450 hp in a 351 with the right pistons, cam, intake, carb, and CR. Just make sure to pick a cam that makes power at RPMs you intend to drive.

[cleandan]

Originally Posted by chopperBob

ok so ive decided to stay with the 351
now im in the process of matching engine parts
does anyone have the edelbrock rpm heads intake and cam
what kind of numbers are you getting ?

thanks again guys Bob

Bob, one thing to keep in mind when choosing parts is how and where the power is made. There are parts that make "the highest" HP at a given rpm, but other parts make more HP over a wider rpm range, eventhough they may not make the highest peak HP. Intakes, heads, cams and so on are all this way. With this in mind you can choose parts that compliment each other while making the best power over the widest rpm range you intend to use. The end result may not be the ultimate in peak HP, but better HP over a wider rpm range will be a quicker car because you are making better power over a longer rpm range. Good luck.

[289ERAkit]

Build, Buy or Borrow?

ERA FIA #2115 should be ready for me in October…..so I have a ton of questions on powering it with a 351W. Is there a FIA 351 owner out there that I can talk with (phone call)? I have too many questions to list at this time to discuss within this format. I’d like to discuss a create engine vs. building my own. …..and a dozen or so question on the building the FIA kit. I’m in lower NH …….I’ll buy lunch if you are nearby. tx mike

I’ll check for replies on Monday……heading up north …..no internet there.

[era2107]

Originally Posted by 289ERAkit

Build, Buy or Borrow?

ERA FIA #2115 should be ready for me in October…..so I have a ton of questions on powering it with a 351W. Is there a FIA 351 owner out there that I can talk with (phone call)? I have too many questions to list at this time to discuss within this format. I’d like to discuss a create engine vs. building my own. …..and a dozen or so question on the building the FIA kit. I’m in lower NH …….I’ll buy lunch if you are nearby. tx mike

I’ll check for replies on Monday……heading up north …..no internet there.

I recently finished my 289FIA (ERA2107) I'm located in Maine but would be willing to share with you anything I can about the 351 I had built fo my

Tom

[347]

351 all the way excellent for stroking or a 289 if you have gazillions of $$$$ and don't mind a very unfriendly car to drive on the street.

You would get some decent power out of a 289 if you turned it 8500ish

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by 289ERAkit

Build, Buy or Borrow?

ERA FIA #2115 should be ready for me in October…..so I have a ton of questions on powering it with a 351W. Is there a FIA 351 owner out there that I can talk with (phone call)? I have too many questions to list at this time to discuss within this format. I’d like to discuss a create engine vs. building my own. …..and a dozen or so question on the building the FIA kit. I’m in lower NH …….I’ll buy lunch if you are nearby. tx mike

I’ll check for replies on Monday……heading up north …..no internet there.

Sorry this is late. I considered the 351W for my ERA 289FIA and know that several owners have used it and the 302 quite successfully. One of the ERA owned 289FIA cars was originally outfitted with a 351W and I believe they still operate it with that motor. Ask Peter about it. I also have a friend in CA who built and installed a 351W in his ERA 289FIA and I could probably put you in touch with him if you're interested. Send me an email if you are. One of the FFR owners in VA used the 302 in his FFR 427 with a blower and has put several thousand very satifying miles on it. I can put you in touch with him also if you want.

I chose to go with a 1965 289 in mine both for originality and registration (emission) purposes. Cost me about $500 more than a 351W and puts out 392 HP @ 6100 RPM which is plenty for my use.

Good Luck whichever way you decide to go.

[289ERAkit]

Hi Tom,
Thanks for you input.....

How does the 351 fit in the FIA...meaning....do you still have room to get at the plugs to change them. In general....can you get at everything to work on the engine?

Did the ERA have any mechanical issues with installing the 351 in the FIA?

How's the hood clearance in relation to the carb.......tight? What's your carb setup?

Sounds like you went with a create engine.....where and what did you buy.....mild or wild.....how's it working out? What HP and cam type are you using? Are you happy with it?

Why the Tremmec T-5 and not the T-6?

Rear end ratio?

Did you go with leather seats...? 289 stile or 427 stile?

Rag top? How's that working out.....do they leak ...much?

Standard FIA tire setup?

How much are you driving the FIA.....?

Are U happy with your setup? What would you change?

I gotta call Peter this week and talk about several options.....you input would help.............

My day phone is 617-475-7262. tx mike

[289ERAkit]

Thanks Warren,
I'd like to mail your 351W FIA friend.......

Is there anything that you would do differently with your build?

Was there any to watch out for in puting the ERA Kit togather? mike

[WarrenG]

Mike,
The friend of mine in CA who installed the 351W is Clyde Blackman. He just sold his car on Cobra Country, but his phone number has already been removed. I emailed another friend of mine (Pete, who helped Clyde with the install) in the CA Tri-Counties CC to get Clyde's contact info for you. In my move here to MD and change in jobs (which resulted in a change in computers), I've lost some of my contacts info. I assume that that is your phone number in the post above, do you mind if I give it to Pete and Clyde?

In the meantime, I know that when installing the 351W you have to go with the hood scoop option for the 289FIA. Other than that Clyde and Pete indicated that the install was pretty simple.

I opted to have ERA build the car for me. I don't have the facilities or the time to build it myself. Besides, this way when I get it I know that it is done right. Clyde and Pete both built theirs so they would be good references for you. In all of the conversations that I've had with Pete about the build, his only complaint was with his engine builder, in fact that is the only complaint that I've heard from any of the ERA owners that I have contacted. If you choose to build the engine yourself you can control the whole process. If you have it built be very carefull who you contract with. I've heard complaints that range from misaligning the timing chain cover to mounting the timing indicator 180 degrees out. Get references just like you would for the car itself.

I know that Clyde went with the T5 transmission. Pete went the the TKO500 I believe and and I went with the TKO600.

I'm not sure what rear end ratio they used but I used the 3.54 and I think that pete did to. 3.54 seems to be the most often used ratio in the ERA 289's.

Clyde built his engine himself. Pete (289 stroked to 347) and I both contracted ours out.

I went with the full leather interior including the street seats and dropped dash. Pete went with the straight racing interior including I believe the seats. Clyde went with the racing interior originally and added the carpet kit later.

I'm the only one of the three that opted for the rag top and since I haven't received my car yet, I can't comment on its ability to keep out the rain other than everybody has told me that the roof only cuts down on the amount of rain that gets in, doesn't eliminate it entirely (just like the original, actually most British sports cars of the 50"s and 60's.

Standard tire setup is 295-50/15 in the rear and 235-60/15 in the front for street. Most guys use 17" rims and tires for all out racing. Talk to Peter, Doug, or Bob at ERA about what size tire to use if you go that route.

Clyde and Pete used PS Engineering wheels, I got Trigo. For a while there was a problem getting delivery of the PS wheels. It was my understanding that PS was having some difficulty with their suppliers. Don't know what the present situation is with their wheels.

I think that I ordered every option ERA offers except the spare wheel/tire and the brake scoops. I just knew that if I spent this much money on a custom hand built car and didn't get everything on it it would eventually bug the heck out of me (same reason that all of my home stereo components are at the high side of high end, but that's a whole different story!).

Good Luck with your car. I should be getting mine next month. I'll stay in touch and let you know how it all pans out.