289/302 engine builder recommendations? Go crate?!?

[cab]

I had a 68 289 done at vellios machine shop in lawndale they have been around for yr's,I was going for a 331 storker but harry said he could bulid my motor to 350 +hp and not stroke it ,it's .040 over alium heads,roller rockers hyd lifters, high proformance cam ,moly push rods forged piston ect..$3241.62
call them 310-643-6347 here is a pic .

[Manowar]

Doug,

I've stayed away from this thread because originally you stated a budget build using your basic components. Since then, you've expanded your consideration to custom builders and a higher budget. All of the builders mentioned are reputable, high quality businesses that build strong engines. Your choice is to fit your desired spending level and get the type of power you want.
I'd like to offer World as another consideration for you to contemplate. You appear to want an 8.2 deck small block. In this family, we offer everything from 302/302HP to 371/455HP. They are priced between $7895 and $9795. All have forged internals, four bolt mains, hydraulic cams and variants have iron or aluminum heads. All use pump gas and are dyno tested for QC and power numbers. All have a two year warranty. The difference between our stuff and all other builders is that we cast our own blocks and heads. In fact, our brand-new aluminum block is an option on any of them at appprox. $2500. We also build 9.5 decks to 625HP for $12295 should your appetite grow larger.
See my gallery and visit our sites for more info.

[Dangerous Doug]

Looks like I have some options to review.

Just a point of clarification: The $7600 quote did not include intake, carb, water pump, air cleaner, valve covers, harmonic balancer, flywheel (though the quote was for a balanced assembly). My surprise was that I was being quoted a price that I thought was more appropriate for a complete engine (see Keith Craft web site, and several others...).

In regard to building myself, I'd have to look at the accumulation of tools for degreeing the cam, installing cam bearings, et cetera.

[speed220mph]

Doug: Give Allan Powell of Powell Motorsports a call at 828-256-6606. I shot a lot of the pictures in his shop I used in my book The Racing Engine Builder's Handbook. Simply look at the pictures and descriptions to check out his work. Allan's prices are right as are his engine builds.

[Dangerous Doug]

Manowar: By the way, that's what I'm talking about. I've looked at your engines and your pricing, and though they seem "high end" the pricing seems appropriate to what you get.

I talked with some other Ford enthusiasts here in town, asking about SB Ford builders. One guy recommended the guys I had talked to, and the another (seemlying more knowledgable---built his own 351 Cleveland) said he stopped recommending them "because they're way to expensive, and their quality is hit or miss depending on if you catch them on a good day." This before I even brought up having talked to them and being surprised by their quote. Interesting.

I think I'll shop around. I got some good tips from this thread (and associated PM's sent to me) and have talked to a guy that used to race for Shelby back in the 60's, and I may have him do the assembly for me.

More to come.

[Shiloh4065]

Keith Craft, World Castings, and the Engine Factory are the three that I have it narrowed down so far, unless I try the "build it yourself" route for my next car, also an FIA. I have read email comments from several ERA FIA owners who have had great things to say about Keith Craft and the Engine Factory, and World Castings has quite a reputation in the racing arena for quality.
Good luck! Have fun.

[800hp]

doug,you have lots of choices with engine builders in your area. dave haver does a great job he is in san jose. nick recineo at bayshore engines in S.F.your engine combo is not that complicad i have done lots of 331's with all forged internals. for a comperison my FE was about 35.000 to do myself now my 410 CI 937 hp was 47.000 from westmar racing engines and my 360CI 710hp was 35,000 from dave laurance in hanford ca. we get 9-15 races out of the 410 and 25-30 out of the 360. if you need any help i can steer you in a good direction. i have been out of the cobra thing for a bit now but have lots of info . i was the founder of cutting edge replicas. and left almost 1.1/5 years ago. Jim

[Dangerous Doug]

Thanks to everyone for your feedback and information. I'm going to start shopping around, for a machine shop and for a builder. I'm also looking into what I'd be getting myself into if I do it myself.

As much as I'm focused on the destination (a running, drivable Cobra) I am enjoying the journey (building it).

Happy New Year!
DD

[289fia_cobra]

Doug:

Do you already have Tom Monroe's book: "How To Build Small Block Ford Engines"? If not, that would be my first (it actually was) purchase. If for no other reason, than to 'see' what you might be getting into.

I had only a minor High School experience with rebuilding a motor and while I opted for a shor block 347 as a compromise between building it from parts and a long block, I can say it's not all that difficult. And because I wanted to do as much as I could on my own, I now own some of the tools you might be needing; if you want to borrow the following:

Ring compressor
Valve spring Compressor
Valve Spring Height Measuring Tool
Cam Degree Kit
Push-rod length checker
Valve lapping stuff
Dial Indicator
Burrett w/plate

I even have a lifter that was converted to be a "solid" lifter for some of the operations needed for dialing in the cam. The one thing I wished I had bought was a valve spring checker to ensure the spring's were producing the specificied poundage. I realize this is overkill for just one engine build; as it turned out, my 347 was the second engine in my FFR so it wasn't too much of a waste; but that's why I'm willing to lend them out rather than have them collect dust.

Let me know.

[Dangerous Doug]

289FIA_Cobra: Wow! That's pretty generous of you to offer to load me those tools. I see you're in Sunnyvale. Are you part of the Athens crowd, or do you head up to the Mtn View meet? Regardless, I'd like to connect with you, check out your car and talk SB stuff. I'm in Scotts Valley, but I work in San Jose near Los Gatos. I'll pm you my number.

[Jim Doak]

I had a local engine builder assemble a 331 stroker for my FFR in late 2000 using good parts, including a SCAT rotating assembly, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, etc. After 4900 miles it started making really ugly sounds last August. An inspection of the oil filter showed bearing material in the filter pleats.

After considering my options, I went with the Ford Racing 345-horse 302. I've only put around 450 miles on the car since I got the engine installed over Labor Day weekend. But so far I'm really happy with the performance. I don't think I lost much, if any, performance with the new engine. Plus it includes a warranty from Ford.

I've become a big fan of the Ford crate engine option.

[Snakebit]

Just got a quote from a local engine builder recommended by most of the local racers. I am supplying all the parts, block, crank, pistons, rods, pistons, rings, cam, lifters, bearings, etc., etc., down to the last nut and bolt except the push rods.

The price includes installing billet main caps and screw in freeze plugs, balancing the rotating asembly, file fit rings, boring .030, square decking, honing cylinders and lifter bores, assembling the pistons and rods, assembling the engine, installing the AFR assembled heads, and aligning the lakewood bellhousing. Plus dyno and breaking in the cam. Price for all the labor is around $1800.00 This is for a 331 stroker.

[289fia_cobra]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

289FIA_Cobra: Wow! That's pretty generous of you to offer to load me those tools. I see you're in Sunnyvale. Are you part of the Athens crowd, or do you head up to the Mtn View meet? Regardless, I'd like to connect with you, check out your car and talk SB stuff. I'm in Scotts Valley, but I work in San Jose near Los Gatos. I'll pm you my number.

Doug: it's suppose to be sunny on Saturday. I 'm planning on Baji's in Mt. View this Saturday at 8:00AM to meet up with another builder and give him some intake plugs I no longer needed. We can hook up over there if you want.

I do go to Athens as well but the last time I went I it was damn cold coming down the Sunol grade! I'll be going there when it warms up a bit (over 50).

PM me. Also in your area, there's a Daytona Coupe builder in SV; he's a very cool person to talk to. He probably has every tool I have plus a few more I'm sure.

[Dangerous Doug]

Snakebit: $1800 for labor is what I would expect to pay for labor. With dyno? What a deal!

Doak: Ford crate is definitely a way to go. Depends on if I want to deal with SB-100 and can time my build approptiately.

I haven't made it to Baji's yet. I'll check the calendar to see if this Sat a.m. is open.

[Snakebit]

Doug, the $1800 is for labor and all the machine work. If you look up Jack Merkle Performance, (not who I am going with), he lists all his prices for machine work. This should give you a ball park.

[Dangerous Doug]

Thanks for the tip. I'll Google him and check it out.

DD

[imagine2frolic]

call STAR MACHINE in Emeryville. He has done work for me on my sailboat. I highly recommend just talking to them. I just talked to him 2 weeks ago about doing a 289 for me. I have seen hemi's, jags, bmw, and anything else you can imagine in his shop. Father 7 son team, and very capable, Paul & Seth.

[289fia_cobra]

Doug:
It was good to meet you yesterday at Baji's. Sorry to hear the unhappy assessment of the block. The 5.0L block is available to you but like anything else, it'd be proper that you have the block inspected/assessed anyway. It was never magnafluxed so that would be my starting point if you wanted it. The only thing I can tell you is, the drain plugs were all threaded to a standard thread size instead of NPT. All 3 bolts have not leaked but quite frankly, it only had about 4 miles and 30 minutes of run time so I can't vouch if it'll hold up longer or not. By my original assessment, it appeared to be a brand new block (not a spot of rust in the water jackets anywhere) when I got it. All the internals are now gone so it's just a bare block with the cam bearings.

PM me and let me know.

[Dangerous Doug]

289FIA_Cobra: Thanks for getting me connected at Baji's. Great crowd there, and some truely nice Cobras. Everyone was nice and willing to help where they could. I may take you up on the 5L block, but I'm still trying to determine the path of least (financial) resistance. I may put off the engine effort until I complete some more research on available crate engines, vs. the cost of building it myself.

Cheers,
DD

[Shiloh4065]

Doug. My deposit goes in the mail tomorrow for an ERA FIA car, and I have been looking at a variety of "permutations and combinations" of doing a motor that will have the appropriate value to go into an ERA car. To me it looks like the Keith Craft motors are a great value. Excellent quality, performance, and very important, reputation. I have looked at buying a reconditioned short block and then putting AFR heads, etc. on to have a nice running motor. But you never know about those reconditioned blocks. At this point a Keith Craft is on my 'build sheet'. Good luck and have fun!!! Rick from Miami.