Anybody dealt with Ford Performance Solutions?

[fsstnotch]

I am considering just buying one of their 331 or 347 kits rather than building my own. I could build my own just barely cheaper than one of their crate engines. of course, if I build it myself, I could have more choice in parts and maybe some better parts for the money. But I'm getting lazy and it'd be so much easier to just drop a crate engine in the car!

http://www.f-p-s.com/engines/index.html

[blykins]

I've bought parts from them, but not a short block, or completed engine. I didn't have any trouble with them though....nice bunch of guys.

[trs900]

Edited... Sorry just noticed it was not Ford racing ...... Never had a problem with my Ford Racing 392 stroker so I would say go for it.. if you build it and miss one little thing then its on your shoulders.. I have done it before clearance on crank bearings..

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by trs900

Edited... Sorry just noticed it was not Ford racing ...... Never had a problem with my Ford Racing 392 stroker so I would say go for it.. if you build it and miss one little thing then its on your shoulders.. I have done it before clearance on crank bearings..

See, this is exactly what I was thinking. I am by no means a professional engine builder! haha I've done a few from time to time though. I usually pretty much just take all the parts to the engine builder and he makes me a short block. This way i can pick my parts and get them at the cheapest prices possible, and I'm very good at finding cheaper from site to site! I budgeted my build with all brand new parts from summit and jegs around $5800 without any machining. That was a forged 331 with victor jr heads. Researched and got the price down to around 5,000 for all the same parts, but I'm sure there are things I forgot.

How about www.proformanceunlimited.com/ford.html? Their 420hp turn key 351w is really looking pretty good right now!

Josh

[Cashburn]

Always read the list of "ingredients" when comparing one engine builder to the next. Also, insist on a dyno of your motor, not just a "hot run" on a wooden stand.

[fsstnotch]

Cash,
I printed out the ingredients of 4 different engines on 4 different sites.

331 claimed 365hp/385tq From www.f-p-s.com
351w claimed 420hp from www.proformance.com
306 claimed 400hp/400tq from www.keithcraft.com
351w 420hp "cobra" from www.chevystreetperformance.com

i'm thinking 400hp will be more than enough for the time being! Of course it's never enough! haha

[blykins]

I've done several engines myself now...I honestly think I take a lot more time to research, pick parts, measure (with correct tools, not dental floss), and assemble than a machine shop that has a quantity of engines to put out per day. I took the time to weigh and calculate my bobweight to have my 428FE balanced. When the machinist tried to balance the rotating assembly with 100g more weight than what should have been, I was there to know that something wasn't right. Turned out, he had forgotten to zero the scale.

There's nothing hard about assembling an engine....just take your time and be patient.

You'll save money and gain lots of experience!

[DavidinDurango]

The theory in medical care is this: find the guy that does a lot of (pick a procedure) total knee replacements. Sure, most orthopedic surgeons could do this . . .I would want a surgeon that does many on a regular basis.

"Sure, I can do brain surgery . . .but my outcomes are pretty poor."

[427sharpe]

"Sure, I can do brain surgery . . .but my outcomes are pretty poor."

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Cash,
I printed out the ingredients of 4 different engines on 4 different sites.

331 claimed 365hp/385tq From www.f-p-s.com
351w claimed 420hp from www.proformance.com
306 claimed 400hp/400tq from www.keithcraft.com
351w 420hp "cobra" from www.chevystreetperformance.com

i'm thinking 400hp will be more than enough for the time being! Of course it's never enough! haha

As an example, compare the crankshaft type and manufacturer from each of those builders. Just one example.

[Manowar]

Here's an alternatine selection from World/Bill Mitchell:
http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_pages/102035.htm

[spencer]

I've worked with F-P-S on building a 302 stroked to 355. This size engine is not listed in their catalog for the general public. I worked with the owner Terry to come up with an engine that fit my requirements. This is not the first engine that I've built so I knew what I wanted and FPS met my demands. The engine components are top quality, the same that you can get at other engine builders or mail catalog. The only custom component was the cam, it's a custom cam from Crane, and anyone can obtain a custom ground cam if they contact Crane and order it. I had no issue when assembling the engine and I used Terry's recommendations for items such as ring gaps, checking clearances and torque settings. IMHO F-P-S can meet meet your requirements. Talk to Terry, deal with the owner when possible. Send me a PM is you want the specification for the stroked 355, I'm sure Terry will remember the specifications.

[fsstnotch]

Wouldn't a 355 stroker require a world block?

After an in dept comparrison last night, in the form of a nice big excel spreadsheet, I decided I'm going to go with the original plan which is to just build my own. It looks like I could have the engine I want for about $4800 before machining. That would include
331 stroker Forged flat tops, forged I beams, cast crank
Victor jr heads
cloyes 9 way roller
howard racing cam
howard racing true alum roller rockers
1 piece chromoly pushrods
march pulley kit
hi flow water pump
edelbrock performer intake
edelbrock 750 carb w/ electric choke
fidanza billet flywheel
ARP Main studs, Rod bolts, head bolts, roller rocker studs, complete engine bolt kit
billet steel main girdle
all clevite 77 tri metal bearings
SFI dampner

I'm sure I left something out.... But the total was $4880 before any machining. I'll take all the bottom end components to the machine shop and have the bottom end assembled there just for piece of mind.

Thanks for the input guys!

[blykins]

If you need help with picking the right cam and manipulating the DCR to fit your needs, let me know.

[fsstnotch]

Blykins,
Given the specs of the heads, 1.7 roller rockers, what cam would you recommend? Think 1.6 rockers would be a better option?

the cam specs on the howard that I have in the list are:
Lift: .474"/.498" Duration @ .050": 214/224 Lobe separation: 112

the specs on the victor Jr's
2.05/1.60 valves 60cc chambers 210cc intake runners 75cc exhaust max lift .650

Looking for hydraulic, non roller cam, 1500-6500 range

I would also consider different heads... Victor Jr's are my preference, but they are most likely overkill for me right now. My intentions are to put a blower on the car. but most likely not until the first engine is ready for a rebuild. Buying the Jr's now would save me money later i think.

[blykins]

Vic Jr's are pretty nice out of the box and flow pretty well.

I wouldn't use a flat tappet cam myself...in fact I don't think I ever will. It's getting harder and harder to do a fresh startup without wiping the lobes off the cam. GM is discontinuing their EOS additive, which used to be a big necessity in breaking in a cam.

From a performance perspective and a reliability perspective, I'd go with a hydraulilc roller. It may cost some extra money, but turning the key without cam worries is worth the cost to me.

Let me know what pistons you're planning to use and I'll run a few numbers for you.

[fsstnotch]

The stroker kit I'm looking at is a Scat and includes
-Series 9000 Cast Pro Comp Lightweight Stroker Crankshaft with 3.250" Stroke
-Forged Flat Top SRP Pistons with 4.030" Bore & Two 1/16" and one 3/16" ring grooves
-Forged I-Beam rods, 5.400" Length with 3/8" ARP bolts

I would definately choose the roller over the flat tappet. Unfortunately the block I have is a "non roller" and from what i've read, the conversion is rather pricey. I've never done the conversion as my cars have always been foxbodies that were already roller equiped.

[blykins]

Conversion is a cakewalk. Just use a "spider" that holds the lifters down in the correct position. It just takes 2 or 3 little drill & tap processes to hold the spider to the block. I've done my own...nothing major to it, but you could have your machinist do it as well.

I just don't have any faith in trying to break in a flat tappet cam these days. With engine oils lacking zinc and good break in additive going away, roller makes perfect sense. If Keith Craft flattens a cam on the dyno every now and then, then there's a good chance that the average engine builder will too.

Those flat top SRP's....how much valve relief do they have? 4cc?

That cam you picked out would probably work pretty well. When I get all the piston specs, I'll pick out a couple roller cams that will work well for you.

BTW, thanks for your service overseas.

[fsstnotch]

It says, Flat top pistons with no valve reliefs and +11cc piston head volume.

Obviously with the vic jr's i'll need to have the pistons cut anyways

[DocDirk]

I've just received my Ford 533 BB from Ford Peformance Solutions and they were a pleasure to work with. I haven't installed the engine yet so no info on real world results there. I did request a dyno prior to shipment. I'd asked them to make the engine as streetable as possible even if it cost some of the potential horsepower (change in cam and reduced compression ratio in the mix) and the results are still impressive: 582 TQ at 3500 RPM, flat curve; 640 HP at about 5000. If it blows up in my face I'll let ya know but I bet it'll be scary sweet