405 Pounds-668HP-CHI Heads-Pump Gas

[Manowar]

We ran our all-aluminum 460 Man O'War Limited Edition CHI on Monday.

...with the following results:


Paul runs the valves hot.



Now the latest news: We plan to build this CHI head, Limited Edition combination using the 8.2 deck aluminum block when those become plentiful in hopefully six to eight weeks. That will be a 375 cubic inch, 8.2 deck with solid roller and most likely our 870, 4150. I suspect it wiil weigh between 355 (the weight of our 9.025 Deck, Motown all-aluminum) and 375 pounds. GTs and Cobras will benefit from that. The Man O'War block is beefier than the Motown (which has withstood 1100HP).
Using the power-to-displacement ratio of the 460 (1.45:1) as a guide, the 375 should make upwards of 540HP. That remains to be seen, but it will be fun.

[blykins]

Have you guys flowed those heads?

[blykins]

Also, were these the 225cc 3V heads?

[Manowar]

bly,
Those are the 213 3V's and their best number was 340 between .600 and .700.

[blykins]

Thank you very much for the info.

[trs900]

Send me one for evaluation I will pay freight charges. If it works out I will make small monthly payments to you..

What will these go for price wise...

[Manowar]

trs
Specs and pain-err-prices can be found here:
Man O'War 460 Cleveland Limited Edition Complete Crate Engine
Actually, we're competitive with other places you can get 668HP. (very few)

[vector1]

Originally Posted by trs900

Send me one for evaluation I will pay freight charges. If it works out I will make small monthly payments to you..

What will these go for price wise...

i'm in on this one. how about a group buy?

[Manowar]

Club Cobra / GT40s.com members:

After a discussion with our National Sales Manager, I can present the following pricing plan on this 460 CHI Limited Edition all aluminum. We are currently offering a $500 rebate program on our Windsor headed version,
(#102075 and 102075A) in both iron and aluminum.
He has agreed to extend this rebate to this engine (#102081 and 102081A)
Now here’s the hard part: we have 2 sets of CHI heads in inventory. If there is interest we will build them in either iron or aluminum blocks. The major problem is that John at CHI in Australia does not send out large batches quickly.
These are truly Limited Editions and the wait for parts is greater than our other engine lines.
If there is interest, we will put up a link to our rebate form with the details of purchase.
If there is “Group Buy” interest, I will see if we can improve the terms further-but no guaranties.

[Tom Kirkham]

Wow,

That should be the ticket in getting a great handling car, with lots of power. With that engine having a car under 2,000 lbs should not be a problem. That would give you a power to weight ratio of 668 Hp/2000 lbs =.344 HP/lb or 2.9 lbs per HP.

[Manowar]

Thanks Tom, nice to hear from you.

[Chaplin]

Wow, that is an impressive motor. But I have a question for you. The website advertises the motor as a "street motor", but it runs a solid roller cam. From what I have heard/read, solid rollers aren't necessarily the best choice for the street and don't have a long life expectancy on the street. Since the motor makes its peak power by 6000 rpm, could you build this motor with a hyd roller cam instead so you don't have to worry about running a solid roller on the street? How much performance, if any, do you think you would lose with a hyd roller?

[blykins]

I would imagine if you kept the duration up there, the performance would be similar. 6000-6200 isn't a stretch for a hydraulic roller with the correct springs and other valvetrain components.

On my 445ci Windsor, I'm using a hydraulic roller, with a 250 degree duration at .050". My hydraulic roller cam should be pretty similar to that 254 duration solid roller in the engine above. I have springs to keep the valves where they're supposed to be and used titanium retainers to lighten the valvetrain.

But you're right about solid rollers. Even with the high end pressure fed lifters, the manufacturers still recommend that you have them rebuilt every so often. Solid roller lifters have to endure the impact of the lifter bouncing on the lobe that is a result of valve lash.

[Manowar]

Chaplin,
We call "Limited Editions" (solid roller) and "Hardcores" (solid flat tap) street engines because they have 10.5 and 10.0 compressions respectively. This particular combination runs just under 11:1 but with 30 deg advance and A/F averages at mid-13 there's no hint of rattle on our 91 Octane Shell.
As for solids on the street, we've had not one warranty claim on our solid roller combinations and that's a two year warranty. The springs may need changing in "every day" street driving but we've not heard that feedback.
Further evidence is Bill's 33 Coupe, seen next to my car in my gallery. That has the very first 454 Motown (SBC) we built.(1998 I think) It's the first "Limited Edition" solid roller. That is a 4.25 x 4.00 engine at 10.5:1. Since it was built, Bill asked the shop guys to wire the secondaries on the 1050 shut so he could use it on the Americruises and HR Power Tour without scaring the $?!* out of Mrs Mitchell. He also only fuelled on 87 octane (34 deg advance) across the country to test his hunch that guys want to drive their stuff on the piss gas that most of the country has. That's it. No maintenance other than oil. Goes about 2500 miles per year and comes to the shop most of the nice spring, summer, fall weather. Made 605 when built and the Coupe is 2650, like mine.
So my point is solid rollers can be lived with on the street but prudent checking and maintenance would be my M.O. (Unlike Bill-ride it hard-put away wet. It's still got Americruse dust on it).
And yes- we have a hydraulic roller option with similar valve events, so it can be had that way. HR's add about 35 HP to our flat tap builds so there may not be a big trade-off to this one.
Care to find out?

[Keithc8]

The biggest problem we have had with these types of engines and what I mean by that is the 351C/Yates style heads and intakes is that it will not fit under the hood of most Cobras. This is why the windsor head engine is so popular in these cars and the headers would be a pain in the ass. You can build some real nice 427 to 454C.I. small block engine with the CHI, Yates, Brodix BF 202, Blue Thunder heads and make all kinds of power but it is a hard fit in most Cobras and GT-40s. We run all of the above heads as well as the new Ford Racing SC1 and D3 heads on circle track cars with weights from 350 to 380 pounds. When the price comes into play and the extra cost of installation I can not get many people interested. If you ran a real low dry sump style oil pan and a 9.200 block you might get it in there. This is where the 8.200 aluminum blocks come in to play and help with the over all height. We have a 8.200 deck aluminum engine with wedge heads that weighs about 312 lbs. You can use a Edelbrock Victor head and make this kind of power and have a better chance of getting under the hood and the headers would be easier. Just some things that I have ran into over the years. Thanks, Keith

[blykins]

Keith speaks some good words.

I'm having a bear dog of a time right now trying to find a set of headers for my 445ci Windsor so that I can get it on the dyno. I'm using TFS TW-R heads and the flange pattern is like nothing else. So of course, my dyno guy doesn't have a set of headers to fit. Chassis headers won't clear his dyno, so I'm having to have a custom set of sprint car headers built just so that I can have this engine tuned and dyno'd. I guess "tuned" won't really be a good word since I won't be able to use these headers in the car, but I'd like to at least get this thing broken in and to make some good pulls with it.

I would be up the creek if I had to have a custom set of headers made for this thing to fit in a Cobra. Talk about some big $$$$.

[Manowar]

Keith's comments are spot-on. For Cobra fitments with 9.2 or 9.5 decks, (GT 40's have better room for CHI's) Windsor-style components are most painless. We have found however that many guys just plain love the splayed-valve heads-for a variety of reasons.
That has led us to the plan to build another Limited Edition in the 8.2 deck aluminum block with CHI heads. With the block being 94 pounds, as seen in my other thread, it's a tiny and light package for 375 cubic inches.

[Chaplin]

That 375 cubic inch motor would be a nice little motor in a 1960's Mustang. Modern suspension . . . 400 lb aluminum motor, 500 plus hp . . . hmmm . . . Sweet little package.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Manowar

That has led us to the plan to build another Limited Edition in the 8.2 deck aluminum block with CHI heads. With the block being 94 pounds, as seen in my other thread, it's a tiny and light package for 375 cubic inches.

I posted a link to that on the Boss 302 registry site for that exact reason. Looking at that puppy still gives me a woody!

Steve