408 KC Crate engine and install package 17,000.00

[Keithc8]

Our website is getting totaly redone right now and it will help on the engine package description. I do several different types of engines for different builders and customers. I do the same exact engine that Roush does as well with the same parts. There is no secrects as to what is used in these engines. There are different options for different people. You do not have to have a Dart block and steel crankshaft for a 6000 rpm 408 engine that makes 500HP. We do them with that stuff if that is what the customer wants. In my opinion if I used a Dart block I would go with a 427 engine.
Jay if I charged as much as Roush and sold you all of your engines I would have no problem doing what they do. I also know that Roush gives kick backs on thier engines to the dealers so that they will push them and use them. If you want to pay the same amount to me as you pay Roush I will be happy to do all of the things they do for you. I tell you what I will do the same engine as they do for 500.00 less and do the same thing on the warranty. If a customer has a problem after a year with one of our engines I will just send him another one to go in its place and fix the other one for the next time should there be one. I already do all of this so it is no big deal. I have even got on an airplane and went to see my customers when needed.
I have been doing this crate engine stuff and these strokers longer than anybody out there. I was doing it when we were turning down 400M cranks and using Ford 6 cylinder rods. I even sold Roush their first stuff to test with for their crate engines. I also do all my CNC head work in house and it is not purchased from another vendor. We assemble every pair of heads for each engine.
We also dyno test every engine that we send out because I do want to make sure everything is ok when it leaves here. This is a no brainer on the engines and this is something that we have always done on most ever engine.
If you do a good product you do not have many problems. I might have to do something to about 1 out of 100 engines if that and that is normally due to a part problem.
Let me know if there is any other questions that I have not answered. Jay feel free to call me at 870-246-7460 and I will get you over some information for the engine you would like to have. I have several Superformance and Backdraft dealers that are asking about less expensive engines because the cost of some of the others have driven the cars higher than most people want to pay. I am doing business with one Backdraft dealer that is getting complete cars together with this 408 package and can sell the cars for 45,000.00 and still make money. I have Superformance dealers that using it and getting som eof their cars together for less than 59,000.00 and we know that you will pay at least 42,000.00 to 43,000.00 for a Superformance roller and that is with very few oiptions. Most of their cars are selling for closer to 70,000.00 now.
You do get what you pay for but why pay to much when you don't have to. Like I said we do a complete 427 small block with Dart block and all the stuff that Roush has for 12995.00, it us to the customer wether he wants to save any money. Thanks, Keith Craft

[Cashburn]

I don't know about any kickbacks as you state? Perhaps I am missing out, or at this stage there is no such thing. The only thing I know of for sure is the 10% rebate that goes to the customer if they join the Roush Owners Group.

If we factor that 10% back to the customer things are level when it comes to cost.

I don't doubt your engines are a quality product, again my issue is with the $ to $ comparisons that I don't think are entirely fair or accurate.

For my typical customer a second engine drop shipped to them does not take care of things, though it is a strong offer.

[HIQ]

Jay - Then use your supplier! You should consider the way you are coming across in a very public forum. Why don't you bash Superformance and show how you are a better value while you are at it. Attitudes like yours keep mfgs and other good folks away from CC. Think about it.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by HIQ

Jay - Then use your supplier! You should consider the way you are coming across in a very public forum. Why don't you bash Superformance and show how you are a better value while you are at it. Attitudes like yours keep mfgs and other good folks away from CC. Think about it.

Is there something else on your screen that is not on mine? Who is bashing anyone? Really, show me what is bothering you here?

I'm asking questions that relate to how Supplier A is posturing against Supplier B... I'm a consumer here

[Got the Bug]

I took delivery of a Roush motor in July of last year. I don't recall seeing any details regarding a 10% rebate. I'm the "king" of rebates...I'll kick myself in the axx if I missed something.

I do recall seeing something about the Roush Owners Group, but didn't see any compelling reasons to join.

[trs900]

My friend just got a Roush I will tell him about the rebate if indeed there is one

[madmaxx]

This is comical

"Jay - Then use your supplier! - He will and so will everyone else.

You should consider the way you are coming across in a very public forum. Why don't you bash Superformance and show how you are a better value while you are at it. - He does not have too, I do and I have a SPF on order. Make no mistake BDR offer more dollar for dollar than anyone else, I used to own one.

Attitudes like yours keep mfgs and other good folks away from CC. Think about it." - This is what keeps us comming back!!! We are talking cars in excess of 50K for the most part, and it is this type of discussion which forces everyone to stay on the top of their game!!

[trs900]

MadMax why did you switch over to the SPF from the BDR if I may ask.

[vector1]

i think this is a real good discussion and all questions have been answered real well with offers of phone calls and faxes. i think KC has the advantage of quantity and being located in the midwest, i.e. lower labor costs, taxes, etc. looks to me like he has put up some good offers.

[madmaxx]

TRS,

The first cobra I drove was a SPF back in 2001. I stumbled across a BDR and got a smoking deal on it. Bought it had a blast for a year and put it up for sale on a whim to see the response I would get. It sold in 7 hours for a hefty profit. That was about 2 years ago when bdr exploded in popularity. Always missed it and decided I wanted another cobra, looked at BDR but real or imaginary I thought SPF was a little better but as we all know it costs about 10K more. I also wanted to try something a little different I still know bdr is by far the best deal for the buck but currently feel spf is a little stouter and has shelby licensing. Surprisingly they both hold their values.

depending on the time of the year you can get a new spf with a roush 402 for under 60k.

[trs900]

Madmax thanks for the answer.. I also feel that the Shelby license is worth something as my GT500 has Shelby stamped right on the car

[Keithc8]

I did not intend to offend anyone with this offer. I was not trying to compare it to anyone elses deal at all. You have to compare everything apples to apples when it comes to a car or an engine. This is just a nice engine and install combination that would help someone get into a Cobra for a little less money than some other options. I build 20,000.00 to 30,000.00 FE engine for a lot of these cars as well and do about 80 of them a year. I just feel that there is a need for a little less expensive option. I did not want to make anybody mad by offering what I felt was a pretty good deal on a complete install price. Just thought it might help a few people.
Thanks, Keith Craft

[madmaxx]

Keithc8,

I hope noyone was offended, if they were they have bigger challenges then trying to outfit a Cobra. You are one of the few that say this is what I am offering and this is what you are getting. The big names when I see and like everyone else it is just opinion is Keith Craft and Roush and then the next level comes. With your $17K option you can easily get into a new SPF turnkey for 58K, probably less. You can negotiate a SPF roller with glove box,ss quick jacks, 15" wheel for $41K.

By the way my BDR had a KC306, I will bet $25K no engine was beat harder than I beat it (dropped the clutch, downshift to early, hold in gear to long, never let it warm up, donuts, and smoked anyone that ever thought about racing it). Next owner carried on the tradition, last I heard 15K miles and still running like a champ. I really wanted a larger motor and figured when it went I would buy one, the problem was it would never die or even miss. You hit it right earlier when you said some options (dart block) is not necessary, 99.9% of us could never test the mechanical limits of what we buy we just like bragging rights. I tested that KC306 and it won. I just remembered one of the reason I sold the BDR was self preservation, I hope I have grown up since I sold it or I refilled my luck because I used up two of my 9 lives driving that car!!

[Cashburn]

Thanks Keith for the clarification. I think you are on the right path with your product... just get your Web site in line with it. Keep building them and they will come. I really don't think we need another Roush in the market, we need a shop that can provide pre'74 engines to modern specs. and also some nice "bang for the buck" engines ... that's where you can own the market (and you know this).

We sell the "bang for the buck" product with the BDR so we share synergies. I am sincere in my request for a price sheet so we may begin working on packages with you. I said it from the start, alternative suppliers are a very good thing for us and especially our customers.

We need:

- A basic 351W engine package
- A strong 351W engine package
- A 408W engine package
- A 427W engine package
- Something FE

You have my email and fax. Shoot something over so we can begin incorporating. I've got a couple cars coming in that don't have planned powertrains. And as you know the changing prices have made the mid-45k BDR tougher to do with some typical options (17" wheels, etc.)

Thanks

[B.M.B.C]

keith what would the price be for a Pond FE package like this

thanks

[Keithc8]

We do a Pond 482C.I. FE engine from carburetor to oil pan for 16,500.00. If you add the pulleys, brackets, alternator, belt, flywheel, bell housing, clutch and pressure plate, starter, TKO 600 transmission, Kirkham hydraulic clutch set up, shifter, alignment, fluids, installation and all you will spend about 25,000.00 to 27,000.00 depending on some options. Give us a call for a complete quote for your application. Thanks, Keith

[SantaFe66]

I'm wondering if you can talk directly to the engine builder and/or knowledgable staff as quickly and easily as I have been able to with Keith Craft. I've gotten excellent and targeted advice on my build from Keith and his staff and will continue to patronize him.

Everything I hear on this website is positive about KCR. Not only that but, take a look at how many posts he replies to with excellent advice, including this one.

I put a lot of stock in communication and KCR delivers that.

Paul

[David-JBL]

Keithc8 said:

In my opinion if I used a Dart block I would go with a 427 engine.

Keith, Could you take a few seconds and explain to me, a novice, why you would go with a 427 in the Dart block? I would like to hear the 408/427 issues again from a master builder.

[Keithc8]

Both the 408 and the 427 use the same stroke which is 4.000. This is the way that we build them. So when you go with a Dart block you should just go to the 4.125 bore and get nthye extra cubic inches and make more power. The bigger bore un-shrouds the bore and helps the heads breath a little better as well. You have the same stoke and rod length so the rod ratio is the same. I would not do the stock block 427 which uses a wierd 4.187 stroke with a 4.030 bore and a 6.200 rod length. This gives you a pretty bad rod angle and shorter piston. Once you buy the Dart block it does not cost much more to do the 427C.I. engine. Good luck, Keith

[madmaxx]

Excellent Info!!