Ford Modulars are enormous engines

[CobraEd]

I have been told that the new Corvette can get just about 30mpg on the highway. Now that is a new engine design that is worth while. Plus it is dimensionally small, it is light, and develops big HP without the need of a supercharger.

Ford shoulda just made the SBF 5.0 re-cast in aluminum, added some good design high compression aluminum heads (like the aftermarket ones) and a good cam design, and they would have had a winner in every respect. The mod motor is a huge step backward!

.

[trs900]

Corvette weighs 500lb+ less and is a lot more aerodynamic than the Mustang thus it will get better mileage.. I considered the Vette but since I still have a full head of hair decided on the Gt..lol seems here in Florida aa lot of old -fat -bald guys drive the Vettes.. the exception is the Z-06

[CobraEd]

My son has an 03 Cobra Mustang with the 4.6 mod motor (4 valve) with the factory water to air intercooler. It is a great car, but how much better would it have been with an aluminum 5.0 SB as its base block??? Probably more HP, lighter weight, and easier to work on.

.

[AMF]

The modular blocks are great for what they're designed for.

Ford went to the larger stroke/bore ratio because of the torque advantages.

let me dispell some myths here:

1) The 5.0 does not make more power than the 4.6. I don't know how many times this has been argued and like I said earlier, it took a decade to dispel that myth. The modular is overhead cam, and has much better heads.

Slap PI or modern SOHC/DOHC on a 5.0 and it will make more power than a 4.6 motor. (hence the new cammer and ford aluminum performance blocks). The improvements are in the heads.

2) The modulars were never designed to be aftermarket/race engines. They've done a pretty good job for what they were designed. Having said that, there are teksid aluminum 4.6 blocks that have run up to 1600 horsepower. The modular blocks are stouter and much better built than the engines of yesterday.

3) Peak horsepower doesn't tell the entire story. I don't know how many countless times the argument is always based on peak power. For starters, in a heavier car (like a mustang or a truck) torque is more important than power. It takes torque to get a car moving. Smaller cars make their money on high horsepower and high revs....heavy american cars make their money with low and mid range torque.

One engine might make 15 more peak horsepower, but might not perform as well simply because it's the entire curve (all the hp under the curve) particularly in the powerband that's important.

There's no doubt that an old 302 pushrod with expensive aftermarket heads and a better intake/carb setup can make good power.

But.....for what they were designed to do, the modulars are good engines. Stock vs. Stock, Ford did a good job.

Aftermarket is another story. The bore vs. stroke issue is an issue if you're trying to rev to 8k+ rpms.

The other thing that's noteworthy is that both modular or pushrod, with modern power adders, they're all plenty of cubes to run more power than you could ever use.

I do agree that the modulars are heavy (the heads are huge and heavy) and expensive. They're not the first choice for building a race car.

But if you're building a modern Ford, and it's easier to pickup a modular block than to try to retrofit everything to a pushrod, then it makes sense. That's where I was at.

If I had known I was going to buildup a 2500 lb car, I probably would have bought the cheapest built pushrod I could find (289 would have been preferable) and then slapped a blower on it and called it a day. There's no need to run a monster engine, unless that's your preference. You can make more power with a 4.2l v-6 than you could ever put to the ground effectively with a street suspension setup. (with a blower that is).

Again, if Ford was building a race motor, it wouldn't be the modular, but for a production run engine that's been modified to support a production type performance car (i.e. the SVT Cobra, Lightning, GT and GT500) it's done quite well.

I don't think Ford needs to go to a new engine. They simply need to add an Eaton to the 5.4 and they can make more power and torque than you could ever use. That's the direction EVERYONE is going. The SRT-4. The new ZR1. That's the new model for power trains. A small(er) displacement engine as the base model, with a blower/turbo for the premium or performance model. To that end, the modulars fit well. The 302 fits the latter requirement, but doesn't do as well for the base model requirement.

[Excaliber]

Ah baloney! Old School rules!!!

...now where did I put those rose colored glasses...

[trs900]

There is a car on one of the GT500 forums turning 10's with a supercharger change and a few other things, their biggest problem is traction..it is a company called Lethal Performance, presently using Mickey Thompsom Street ET's and says they hook pretty good.. nothing touched inside the engine.. real easy to get 600-700 RWHP out of a GT500 so I would say the mod motor is good for producing big power. Now if I could only lose 500-600Lbs..

[mj_duell]

[quote=AMF;828559]The modular blocks are great for what they're designed for........

QUOTE]

Yes they are!



--Mike

[AMF]

[quote=mj_duell;828581]

Originally Posted by AMF

The modular blocks are great for what they're designed for........

QUOTE]

Yes they are!



--Mike

Is that a cammer? The individual TB setup probably sounds beautiful. Very nice.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by BossCER

Dimensionally larger than a Boss 9

Me likey! I think I just got wood! LOL

[olddog]

5.0 with GT-40 aluminum heads 345 Hp, no intake or dizzy shipping weight 425 Lb. Note 225 hp was the most I can recall for a production car.

2005-06 Mustange 3 valve 4.6 only 420 lb full dress. Significantly lighter than a factory iron head 5.0!

2003 Mach1 4.6 4 valve 305 Hp & 320 ft lb.

5.0 Modular exceeds 400 hp and 365 ft/lb naturally asperated.

Now that we have the facts, heavy compared to what? Performance poor? People turning 400 hp (at the wheels) @ 7000 rpm just by sticking a blower on a factory engine and tuning. Let's see a hot rodder is supposed to hate this? Oh buy the way a Mustang will still do 22 MPG with a 400 Hp engine.

[fsstnotch]

5.4 lightning motor in a 69 mustang.... LIKE A GLOVE!!!!!














Needless to say, it's going to take ALOT to shoehorn that thing in a cobra! I'm not sure a 5.4 will be able to fit and still be very streetable unless you go without a hood, or put a mailbox on it!

Complete buildup of the above car plus a couple vids. Had to drip the crossmember a bit to even get it close.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2316745

[AMF]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

5.4 lightning motor in a 69 mustang.... LIKE A GLOVE!!!!!














Needless to say, it's going to take ALOT to shoehorn that thing in a cobra! I'm not sure a 5.4 will be able to fit and still be very streetable unless you go without a hood, or put a mailbox on it!

Complete buildup of the above car plus a couple vids. Had to drip the crossmember a bit to even get it close.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2316745

There've been a few done already. Metco motorsports is building what may possibly be the baddest cobra build (in my opinion) to date.

Mine is very similar. They're using a GT500 engine. I'm using a built 5.4 (to the max) with just as good of heads/cams and a better blower.

They're going to run 12" wide meats in the rear. I plan on doing the same.

The car will be heavier, but when you're used to trying to get a 3500 lb mustang down the strip, pushing a "fat" 2700 lb cobra is like the difference between sprinting with a TV on your back in boots and sprinting buck naked and barefoot.

I've got all the goodies, a wicked motor, a race auto, I'll have the fuel system to support it and the biggest meats I can run in the rear.

I've even got a budget number to add paddle shifters instead of the old Hurst ratchet. Should be pretty badass, whenever I get the time to actually get it done.

The great thing about a blown 5.4 is that I can detune it down to where it's very safe and bulletproof and have no worries about stomping my foot. I suspect that I can make 650 to the rear wheels with less than 8 psi. That means no detonation worries, no belt slip issues, 93 octane and a whole lot of ear to ear grins

[fsstnotch]

I can't wiat to see some finished pics of cobra's with a 5.4! Depending exactly how much clearance is needed, maybe a supersnake hood could clear? Mr. Bruce on this site sells them.

A modern day supersnake.... with a really big small block?

[NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

I should qualify my last statement: The plan is to replace the modular motor in Australia with a new Ford/Jaguar sourced Supercharged 5.0 Litre V8. This was for the 2010 models.

I just found this interesting info when I went searching for the new Jaguar V8. It seems Indian car maker TATA has just bought Fords UK marques Land Rover and Jaguar for $2.3 Billion. However they will still be sourcing engines from Ford. It'll be interesting to see what happens now.

Cheers

Hi Mike,
Depends what you read with regards to the replacement motor in 2010.
Could be Jag 5.0 or it could be the Hurrican/Boss motor which is the replacement for the Triton 5.4 V8 that has now ceased production. The new Boss is rumered to be based on the 5.4 with wider bore centre, increasing capacity to 5.8 and 6.3 litres. Quad cams and all. It would make more sense for Ford in Oz to use a high volume production engine rather than a low volume production engine for use in premium branded vehicles. Time will tell.

Cheers

[mj_duell]

[quote=AMF;828724]

Originally Posted by mj_duell

Is that a cammer? The individual TB setup probably sounds beautiful. Very nice.

Nope. 4.6 DOHC with a custom built stack system. Wasn't cheap, but it looks great . I actually have this motor and a Tremec up for sale now. I sold the Cobra roller without the drivetrain.

http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...t=1040&cat=500

--Mike

[letsboogie351]

5.4 Quaddie for my Cobra

[BossCER]

Hey FSSTNOTCH,
Do you have any pics of the completed '69 ? Looks like a fun project.

[fsstnotch]

nope, I think it's still in progress. that guy is doing almost exactly what i want to do with a 67-68.

[FUNFER2]

[quote=AMF;828724]

Originally Posted by mj_duell

Is that a cammer? The individual TB setup probably sounds beautiful. Very nice.

Beautiful.....

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Me likey! I think I just got wood! LOL

Also beautiful....