AFD alum heads for cleveland

[blykins]

In his defense, the Edelbrock heads are turds. They are more for a 2V replacement, and instead of 300cfm flow numbers, they're down around 260. Even with a large cam, they still wouldn't make the power.

[Keithc8]

Just to make things clear we can make over 700HP with the Edelbrock heads but why mess with it when there are better heads out there. I have made close to 800HP with the stock cast iron 4V heads and a lot of work.
If you are going to get into this head deal and HP just go ahead and get some Blue Thunder 4.3 heads or some Ford D4 Cup heads and make 1000HP with a big inch small block. How big is ones pocket book and how much power do they want to make.
There are a bunch of heads out there and a lot of them will achieve the same thing in maybe a different way. Are you trying to use a stock intake? Are you trying to use a stock style exhaust? Are doing everything from scratch and money is no option.
You have to remember that the Engine Master deal will only let you use certain heads on certain engines. Some engines came from the factory with better heads. If they made you use a stock cast iron head the 351C would still be the way to go because it along with the BBC have the best head from the factory. Since they let you work on the head anyway that you want you can da all sorts of stuff. We were filling in the ports on the 351 4v heads 20 years ago and filling the floor on the exhaust and opening them up per NHRA Super Stock rules and getting 370cfm intake and 250cfm exhaust almost 20 years ago. The new Blue Thunder and D4 heads we have will go 440cfm intake and 300 cfm exhaust. It is just time and money and most people do not want to spend it. At least we have after market heads now for Fords, when I started we had to work on the cast iron stock stuff.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[chris393W]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

Just to make things clear we can make over 700HP with the Edelbrock heads but why mess with it when there are better heads out there. I have made close to 800HP* with the stock cast iron 4V heads and a lot of work.*If you are going to get into this head deal and HP just go ahead and get some Blue Thunder 4.3 heads or some Ford D4 Cup heads and make 1000HP with a big inch small block. How big is ones pocket book and how much power do they want to make.*There are a bunch of heads out there and a lot of them will achieve the same thing in maybe a different way. Are you trying to use a stock intake? Are you trying to use a stock style exhaust? Are doing everything from scratch and money is no option.*You have to remember that the Engine Master deal will only let you use certain heads on certain engines. Some engines came from the factory with better heads. If they made you use a stock cast iron head the 351C would still be the way to go because it along with the BBC have the best head from the factory. Since they let you work on the head anyway that you want you can da all sorts of stuff. We were filling in the ports on the 351 4v heads 20 years ago and filling the floor on the exhaust and opening them up per NHRA Super Stock rules and getting 370cfm intake and 250cfm exhaust almost 20 years ago. The new Blue Thunder and D4 heads we have will go 440cfm intake and 300 cfm exhaust. It is just time and money and most people do not want to spend it. At least we have after market heads now for Fords, when I started we had to work on the cast iron stock stuff. Good luck, Keith Craft

My point exactly. I bet the Edelbrock heads were run as stock. I bet they had no hand porting, which the AFD heads clearly had, yet they are being used as a comparison.

Even more interesting is the highlighted text below. I got the text below from the link provided in the post above. Its talking about the same alleged 740hp engine Lawrence from Ausford parts was talking about, only this time its 666hp. Funny that.....

No, your eyes are not deceiving you; this outrageous rig is a 1951 Series 1 Land Rover - owned and piloted by Chad Taylor. Mind you, there's not a lot left of the ol' girl. A more apt description might be the outer shell of a '51 Landie draped over a chrome-molly, tube-frame chassis. Nonetheless, with a 666-horse (496kW), 393-cube (6.4-litre) Ford Cleveland V8 under it's nose, this matt-green beast has managed to sprint down the quarter-mile in a whisker over 9.5 seconds, nearing 140mph (225km/h).***

I agree with KeithC8. There are heaps of choices out there and it all depends on a persons budget. The 340 looks impressive until you look further. Ausford parts goes on about how their stuff is affordable. Hell that engine has hand finished heads,* a Wilson modified manifold on it and fuel injection. How is that affordable ? Id hate to think waht the Wilson manifold allone is worth. Is that what it takes to get good results from an affordable cylinder head???

[stangme]

hello to all ... first post...

somewhat off topic at times... and a little ranting ... and a little long..but..

I'll have to say .. its all in what you want... AFD or CHI and what your goal is. I wanted to build something different for when i lift the hood at a show, be able to drive 400 miles round trip with about 500hp/500tq with the wife beside me. I don't plan on drag racing and would love to road race or SCCA one day and maybe do a long distance pro touring trip. basically i want to be able to get in the car and go without thinking about it...
so i ordered a set of AFD 2V heads after beating my head against the wall trying to find a good pair of 2V factory heads and getting them cleaned up and prepped. I read and read and then read some more on the CHI vs AFD. so i went all out and ordered a SCAT forged 408 rotating assembly with SRP forged pistons and scat H beam rods to stuff in my C9 date code 351W block. I had to... gotta give those great flowing heads something to feed! was it cheap no..is it what i wanted yes. and for those wondering....why didn't i go with eagle for my rotating assembly? nobody i talked to would put a stroker kit together for me. eagle reps said nope.... so i searched elsewhere.

why did i buy the AFD heads over CHI? because i didn't want to purchase the intake for the CHI heads. I already had a B&A 351 track boss intake and I wanted to be as close as I could at getting factory accessories and headers to bolt on. I want AC and PS to bolt up. have i bolted up the accessories yet ... nope... i pick up the long block from the machine shop in jan 09. hmmm the CHI heads seem to out flow the AFD heads in published numbers. but, the completed AFD 2V heads can get me into a great flowing set of heads for a bit less than the CHI heads and will work with my 2v intake and have a good chance at hitting my 500/500 goal.. decision made...

its so easy to get caught up in the numbers game and bench race with this head and that ...CHI or AFD... AFR or edelbrock... ported .. or "cleaned up"... etc etc. bottom line in my opinion... until you build it and place it on a engine dyno or chasis dyno .. you don't know what you have. can you ball park the build based on published specs... yep, that's what i did.. how many people have the time, money and resources around them to flow the heads to verify the numbers, flow the intake, port the intake for even flow.. match the intake to the heads.. then stick it on an engine dyno. not many ... i am trying to locate an engine dyno that is operational at the moment and as of yet i have not found a engine dyno within two+ hours in the SE that has an operational dyno. if anybody has some leads.. let me know.

everybody has a budget .. but a budget build... that's defined per individual ... a budget of 2,000 or a budget of 10,000 ... only if you already have parts laying around, have your own machine shop..lots of skills and build it yourself... can you save money and build it "correctly". can you half A$% it and do a junk yard build.. sure.. how long will it last? so many variables... so little time.

In building my combo I had fixed cost on machining, prep and labor.... everything else was defined by what "I" wanted. did i have to purchase a 2100 set of AFD heads. nope... i could bolt on a set of factory 351C 2v heads and have 800 bucks in them (cleaned, ported, valves). did i have to stroke it to 408... nope.. my stock 69 351W crank is still in great shape.. but why put 1200+ dollars into a engine (block prep, heads cleaned, new valves, rods, push rods etc.) and wonder if its going to last on a 400 mile trip (with wife beside you) or stay together when you "put your foot in it". (Freudian slip.. trying to justify being over budget...?) not to mention the 500hp/500tq goal.

its all in what you want.... cant wait till the new AFD intake comes out... hmm maybe ill build a CHI headed motor with the new boss block... then put the AFD heads on it with an edelbrock 302E intake... it never ends... .. .oh yeah im already over my "budget"

take care

[Dingocooke]

Interesting thread, my two pence worth?

Im running a 351C in my car with 2v quench heads and still dreaming of my upgrade engine (another 351C) with better cam heads etc.

Ive emailed both CHI and AFD, and both their numbers look good.

However (isnt there always one of these??) AFD were just so helpful, gave me lots of build info, suggested specs for my application, and were very open to communicate with, and no heavy sales pitch. CHI were friendy but the info was very minimal, and I got the feeling I was being 'sold to' more than advised. CHI seem to offer a head for many engines, whilst AFD are cleveland/clevor only, so the choice is small 351C specialist thats really helpful or bigger commercial company that (appears) less helpful?

Just my take on it and would be interested to hear what people who have bought AFD's or CHI's have found when theyve run their 351C's.

Have fun and heres to a happy 2009!!!

Steve-still dreaming of a better 351C for my car!!

[stangme]

Originally Posted by Dingocooke

Interesting thread, my two pence worth?

Im running a 351C in my car with 2v quench heads and still dreaming of my upgrade engine (another 351C) with better cam heads etc.

Ive emailed both CHI and AFD, and both their numbers look good.

However (isnt there always one of these??) AFD were just so helpful, gave me lots of build info, suggested specs for my application, and were very open to communicate with, and no heavy sales pitch. CHI were friendy but the info was very minimal, and I got the feeling I was being 'sold to' more than advised. CHI seem to offer a head for many engines, whilst AFD are cleveland/clevor only, so the choice is small 351C specialist thats really helpful or bigger commercial company that (appears) less helpful?

Just my take on it and would be interested to hear what people who have bought AFD's or CHI's have found when theyve run their 351C's.

Have fun and heres to a happy 2009!!!

Steve-still dreaming of a better 351C for my car!!

I'll have to second that .. I spoke with a couple other companies that had stroker kits out, and I'll have to say I probably had too many questions, but I only have one shot at doing this build ... Lawrence answered my questions and then some...on the AFD heads and stroker kits.. others answered some questions but then wouldn't return my calls or email. I felt on my own with the CHI setup and already having the track boss kinda closed the deal.... maybe the CHI guys expect their market to be more educated .. don't know. But, AFD was the right decision for me.
maybe in another month ill have some dyno numbers...

[chris393W]

Isnt it funny how we all take different things out of what we read and are told. First this thread was about AFD, then Edelbrock got dragged in and now CHI.
All I know is that you guys didnt do your homework very well or Lawrence is a very good salesman. But then again Lawrence doesnt have his facts right either, so Im not to sure that Id take his word for gospel.
Your probably thinking what on earth am I talking about. Well you all have said that CHI heads need their own manifold. Did you guys not bother to read their website??? They have 2V heads that fit all 2V manifolds. Its all there on their website. They also have true 4V heads that mate up to 4V factory intakes, AFD doesnt. The AFD "4V" heads are little misleading as they are just like the CHI 3V heads and require an aftermarket intake manifold. I see Lawrence conveniently forgot to elaborate on this but was quick to point out this about CHI . All 3 companies have standard height exhaust ports also, but CHI offer a raised exhaust port. So I dont see how one 2V head is any easier to fit than the other from any of the 3 brands. CHI just seem to have more options that cover a greater range of combinations and this gets a little confusing for sure, especially with the SBF stuff as their are so many different block options. From what Ive read the guys at CHI have more bases covered for us Cleveland guys
There is alot of info out their if you look long enough and dont take the word of one person only. Apparently the new AFD heads are now made in China. I read on another forum where AFD was asked where his heads were made. He answered other questions but side stepped that one...
Seeing as this thread has gone from one brand to another, did you all know that TrickFlow now also have a 2V head they are going to release as well. It sounds really similiar to the CHI head. Same port volume and airflow. I dont remeber where I read it, but it was on display at SEMA I think.

[stangme]

I may not have been comparing apples to apples but this is what I was comparing:
CHI "complete" heads
CHI 3V 208 R/A 221424
$2999
AFD 2V "complete" 205 64cc heads
$2150

The way I interpreted the CHI website was the 3V heads which I was looking at, did require a special intake. The CHI street 2V heads work with stock/aftermarket 2V intakes. I may be wrong, but that's what I was comparing. But, I am building a Clevor setup and already have the intake.

Also, I don't recall the CHI 2V street heads being available when I ordered AFD in May-Oct of 08'.
"CHI is proud to announce the all new Street Master 2V cylinder head. Designed to work with standard 2V intake and exhaust manifolding the 2V Street Master cylinder heads have no equal."

I would love to test the flow on the AFD heads, but I have no experience with this. I'll ask the engine builder if he can check the flow.

Both manufacturers have changed the heads for the better, so I hope my AFD purchase reaches my goals. I don't think anyone can go wrong with either head combo.

what isn't made in China? Geez at this point I think the only thing internal on my motor that wasn't made in china was the.... crap... cant think of anything.. maybe the main girdle from canton.. lol


WOW... Trick Flow GenX ... everybody is making Cleveland heads now... nice.. lots of options..

have a happy new year!

[blykins]

$3000 for a complete set of CHI heads? I'm seeing $2250.

You can buy bare heads for $1550.

Even if they were a couple hundred dollars more than the AFD's, the flow numbers would be worth it. The AFD heads will not touch the CHI heads in low, mid, and high lift numbers. The CHI 3V port is the key....lots of flow with a small port volume. The AFD 4V heads might come close in high lift, but there again, you're comparing 235cc heads to 208-225cc heads.

[Fordzilla]

Originally Posted by stangme

what isn't made in China? Geez at this point I think the only thing internal on my motor that wasn't made in china was the.... crap... cant think of anything.. maybe the main girdle from canton.. lol


have a happy new year!

Yes, I think alot of people would be surprised to know where the majority of their "High Performance American Products" were being made!

Regards,

[stangme]

Originally Posted by blykins

$3000 for a complete set of CHI heads? I'm seeing $2250.

You can buy bare heads for $1550.

Even if they were a couple hundred dollars more than the AFD's, the flow numbers would be worth it. The AFD heads will not touch the CHI heads in low, mid, and high lift numbers. The CHI 3V port is the key....lots of flow with a small port volume. The AFD 4V heads might come close in high lift, but there again, you're comparing 235cc heads to 208-225cc heads.

you are correct on the cost for complete solid lift setup... I have a roller setup.. I also posted the part number for the price and the comparison I made was a 205cc AFD to a 208cc 3v CHI.

this thread is funny... from the original question... which the original question was..

Originally Posted by souzape

Anyone here used the Aussie AFD alloy heads on the 351C? Aus Ford Parts is the US distributor for western US.

I guess I should have just said no since I don't have a Cleveland... and not try to reply as to why I purchased the AFD heads. lol ... not saying my decision was for the best flow vs cost ratio ... but how I ended up with the AFD heads, my intended use etc etc.

anyway hopefully souzape was able to gather some info from this thread.

blykins, do you own a set of AFD or CHI heads on a Cleveland or Windsor block? what has been your experience with either head? maybe we can start a new thread and show what the pro's and cons from others experience has been.

[Kartjock]

I purchased a set of heads and waited 4 months to get them. I would recommend buying them bare and do your own machining. The spring heights were out of spec and the seats were not sealing on the valves requiring a regrind of everything. Two of the Intakes were so tight they had to be driven out with a mallet to dis-assemble. I don't know if it was the distributor or AFD that caused all this greif but an E-mail to ADF did not get any action eccept
This has never happened before. My block is a 9.200" 351C but the manifold that came off my original 4V heads sat 9/16" high of the valley end seal surfaces. If don't have machining capability they aren't bolt on's. Check out my pic's of the custom valley plate required on my photobucket site.
Order from a distibutor and inspect before paying. I payed in advance, big mistake.
Kartjock

http://s378.photobucket.com/albums/oo228/kartjock/

[Falcon Coupe]

You will need a valley plate for any existing manifold, and I dont see anywhere on their website where they explain this. Maybe Ausford Parts can elaborate on this for us seeing as he was only too happy to point out that CHI had raised exhaust ports But forgot to mentio their own fittment issues.........

[Kartjock]

Falcon Coupe, I see you experienced the same height issue I experienced. I have my 408 Cleveland runing now on a test stand. The custom valley cover shown in my Photobucket link in the previous thread shows the fix. 3/8" Mic-6 alum plate. Band saw the ends, tap the six seal locators at the ends 1/4-20", and o'ring the plate edges on a Bridgport mill. I used Right Stuff sealer at the ends only, no gaskets. The Edelbrock Torker was easily "Air Gapped" with a band saw and air tools. I also removed the exhaust cross over since the heads didn't have any. The end result was interesting and has reveled no leaks.
This fit is ok if you have a machinist friend to make the cover plate. Otherwise
your stuck without it. Check out the billet Timing cover we made for the Cleveland as I couln't locate any new ones here in the states.
Kartjock

http://s378.photobucket.com/albums/oo228/kartjock/