Turkey pan with 2x4's

[550FLYER]

Does anyone make or has anyone modified a single carb pan to work with a dual carb setup?

[550FLYER]

No one? Well then, does anyone have a pan they're not using, that I could borrow to make a template? I think I'd make it as a two part aluminum or stainless pan (polished)

[Woodz428]

I am contemplating the same thing. I don't think that a single 4 turkey pan is big enough to enclose both carbs, at least not on my FE. I will be building one up for it from scratch, it's easier and less costly than cutting up one that I know is too small in order to lengthen it. I'd make up a cardboard template and take some measurements prior to committing to an existing one that needs to be cut.We might both be surprised if it will enclose both...I know I will.

[ERA Chas]

I'm fairly sure it's not doable using the conventional turkey pan design. For one, the front carb is right up on the distributor.
Assuming you conquer that, the linkage, springs and the need to adjust would make it a PIA to live with.

I fabricated a completely functional cold air system which seals to the scoop. Mounting the pan at the carb throats instead of the throttle plates avoids all the above hassles. It's a Moroso foam kit and a fabricated aluminum pan with rolled edges at the carb necks and outer edges. Seals to the hood perfectly, adds HP and stops the stalling tendency on hard stops when the carbs eat hot air.Those are 9" K&N's. Idle speed can be set with the pan in place.

Certainly originality is not an issue with your project so why start with a conventional TP? Can work with FE or SBF. Here's mine:

[TerrysSPF]

Chas- It looks like the air cleaners sit a little higher than the foam. Do both the air cleaners fit inside your hood scoop?

-Nice looking setup.

[ERA Chas]

Thank you Terry. Yes they do but the filter tops are just slightly below the foam. The foam touches the hood all around and you can see where the ERA hood brace contacts the foam at the rear. Cut the foam so the hood needs just slight pressure to latch it closed.
Having the open top K&N's was a big bonus. It breathes very well.
The trick is getting 2-9" filters in a place where the 8" Stellings
were...

[550FLYER]

Chas- nice work. I was looking at my setup on the workbench tonight (intake & carbs aren't installed yet, still running a single carb) & was thinking of something making something similar to yours. However, with the edelbrock carbs & intake I think I'll have to mount the pan under the carbs and enclose the linkage like a regular turkey pan. There's plenty of winter left here, so I'll screw around with some cardboard mock-ups & see what fits. Really like the foam seal on your setup - good idea

[ERA Chas]

550, thank you also.
Yes the winter has become a PIA and it's really just started.
For sure templates and mock-ups are the best way to go. Didn't know you had Ede's so I'm unfamiliar with your linkage. Remember you want to have at least idle adjustment and linkage access for adjustment also while the pan's in place.
Best luck and post when you've got something that works.

[Cashburn]

See if you can find an engine shot of GT40 P 1031. It is in the latest Vintage Motorsport magazine.

[WildBill1965]

Part of the reason for the turkey pan being under the carb besides the ram air effect, was to keep some of the engine heat off the carb to keep fuel from boiling.

[TerrysSPF]

Bill- You are correct. From my understanding, the objective of the Turkey Pan was to help keep the hot engine air away from the carb. In truth, there really is no "ram air" effect goin on with a turkey pan in a Cobra. I know some people install some rubber weatherstripping around the top of their pan, but it really doesn't form a "seal" around the hood. Fact is, I doubt that much air from the outside gets in thru that tiny little Cobra hood scoop anyway.
The most effective "ram air" setups that I've seen come from a scoop in the REAR of the hood. I owned a 69 Z-28 as well as a 70 Chevelle SS. Both cars had very effective ram air set ups that drew cold air from the rear of the hood off of the windsheild and directly to the carb (that was surrounded by a rubber seal to a hole in the hood).
I've always had the belief that hood scoops that face the front of the car are for directing cooler air THROUGH the engine bay........not directly into the carb (although it passes by the carb on it's way out). The vents on the side of the engine bay (like on Cobra's and Corvettes) help pass the air as well.

Don't know how accurate I am but that has always been my thought on the subject.

[ERA Chas]

Terry, while I agree that the most effective ram setups are rearward facing as the Cup cars, do not under estimate a Cobra scoop.
The only source of air for my carbs is through that scoop. Engine bay air/heat is sealed away by the foam contacting the hood. I have found that with the hood open and idling at 1100, idle speed will drop to 900 on closing the hood. Don't doubt how little air gets through that tiny scoop. The key is getting it into the carb throats.
I found what makes mine work so well is the open top K&N's. I know, I heard and read all the chatter about the tops are bogus, showing no gains to less power on dynos etc. but I can only tell you this works great for my setup.
I ran the pan when new with closed tops and the stalling was largely eliminated. I then installed the open tops and it felt like 20 more HP-big push through the RPM range and as the car gained speed. Now I can lock the brakes and the engine stays lit too.
I agree for the most part with your thoughts but my experience with my setup is successful and different than the "norm".

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by WildBill1965

Part of the reason for the turkey pan being under the carb besides the ram air effect, was to keep some of the engine heat off the carb to keep fuel from boiling.

That was my intent, to reduce the heat transfered into the bowls making the duel denser,etc. But some modern thoughts about vaporization/atomization make the cold intake/hot bowl idea something to ponder. That would be easier to fab up initially than a turkey pan and might reap better benefits...at least I can compare the 2. Nice set up, by the way.
I didn't realize you were using the Carter style carbs either, you MAY be able to fit them in a pan. I'd have someone with a turkey pan measure the opening length and then measure your carbs. Because they lack the bowl length one both ends as well as the middle, it may work. I remember that 2-4 Cobra intake I used to run on a '65 fastback was for the Carters and the mount pads were placed too close for Holleys unless they were sideways.

[FUNFER2]

Chas- I know these are pretty easy to build but, very,....very nice work.

Question's- as the hood moves while driving, has the foam rubbed/scuffed any of the paint ?

I've seen the Moroso foam kit for years but, do you know of any company's that are made for a single carb ?

I like the nice round edges, and I don't know if I made the foam myself, if I could get all the edges and the round corners as nice as the Moroso ?

Even if I bought the quad foam and cut it in half in the middle, if it would look good ?

Well, I guess I answered my own question. Here's a single kit.




Need your opinion. Would the foam look ok for my oval air cleaner assembly ? Hum,.....now I wonder if I should go back to the Stellings air cleaner ? (damn, I sound like my blonde wife) lol

550flyer- sorry, I did not mean to take over your thread.

Thanks,

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by TerrysSPF

The most effective "ram air" setups that I've seen come from a scoop in the REAR of the hood. I owned a 69 Z-28 as well as a 70 Chevelle SS. Both cars had very effective ram air set ups that drew cold air from the rear of the hood off of the windsheild and directly to the carb (that was surrounded by a rubber seal to a hole in the hood).
I've always had the belief that hood scoops that face the front of the car are for directing cooler air THROUGH the engine bay........not directly into the carb (although it passes by the carb on it's way out). The vents on the side of the engine bay (like on Cobra's and Corvettes) help pass the air as well.

Don't know how accurate I am but that has always been my thought on the subject.

I'd say that your are mostly correct, the amount of effect a forward facing scoop has is dependent a lot on how the nose of the car is shaped. The plenum effect at the rear somewhat on the angle/shape of the windshield. The Boss 429s had an enormous scoop, waaay to big, Dyno Don, Barry Poole or one of the other Ford racers discovered that reversing the scoop actually made them faster (read; more power). I believe that the regular scoops and the shakers had a better effect because they were picking up boundry layer air on the surface of the hood, above a certain height it becomes turbulent, at least on those cars.

[TerrysSPF]

I have a turkey pan that is currently not on my engine so I went out and measured it. The carb opening on the bottom of my pan is almost square. It measures aprx. 3.75 long by 3.75 wide. The bottom of the pan itself measures aprx. 14 inches long by 10.25 wide, so there is a lot of room for cutting a larger hole.

Chas- Your set up looks terrific, and I can't argue with your trial-n-error. What works, WORKS! I've also heard that the open top K&N's are bogus but I have a friend that has one and he swears by it.
-You simply can't argue with results.

I've never figured out why they would NOT work / flow more air into the carb. Your going from a solid lid to a filtered (breathable) lid. I never could figure out how that would result in LESS air flow?

-I guess that's why I'm not an engineer.

[HI Cobra]

I have the top filter on mine also. I don't see how adding it could reduce
flow since you are increasing the filtered surface area by + pi r2'd.
Mine seems to run better with it.

[ERA Chas]

Yes guys I agree that more area is a good thing-it worked for me.
Guys that dyno a lot like Barry or Keith could give a much better explanation than me. But I've heard from some pros that how the air approaches the throats is a more critical factor than volume. Many test with only a drop base which I'm told smoothes the air's approach-result a few more HP. Some say filters are necessary to straighten or direct the air vs. no filter or base at all. I used to witness dyno testing daily on 500 to 1200HP engines. All manner of filters were tried (interestingly-no fliter tops) K/N, Moroso, Accel etc. Across the board, every thing made 3 to 7HP more with no filter. Remember that a dyno's air feed is straight down-no dynamic effect. Possibly dyno filters would work better with an open top.
But dynos are stationary. An effective in-car setup will definitely add some ram effect, no matter how small. I found that to be true.
Pro stock scoops are all about flow and their opening area seems small for 1400HP-but there's a ton of science in how the air is directed to and around the carbs and the pressure increase as the car moves down track.
The other factor discussed is heat and keeping heat away from the throats is a good thing. My pan stopped the stalling on braking by keeping a more-dense air charge reaching the carbs instead of the hot engine bay air which is much less dense.
It is much less critical IMO in our cars to keep heat away from the carb bowls. The only time you'll boil fuel is if the line is in proximity to say, the headers (yikes!) or the cylinder head. Insulating fuel lines is not a bad thing but is overkill in our cars unless you're looking for another .010.
Turkey pans were on the real deal and were a good solution 45 years ago. They bring back the nostalgic look. But there are other effective ways to improve power today.
I wrote this in "quick reply" but I'm sorry it turned into a sermon...