347 Crate Engine from T and L Engines

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Careful Chas, Patrick may send you bill in the mail for this therapeutic time at $175/hour.

Well, we all know Chas. is "wound a bit tight" to begin with. I just thought he might feel better, and the reading audience would get a better appreciation for what really happened, if he simply told us the full story. Right now he's left it with "I think I got screwed 20+ years ago, and I'm still pi$$ed about it, but I'm going to pretend like I'm not (even though I really am)." For all we know, it could have been something innocuous, like delivering the engine a week late and Chas. missed his favorite classic race, or perhaps it was something more. But unless Chas. takes the high road of "full disclosure," we'll never know....

[Cashburn]

Give Chas a break... he had a bad experience, whatever that was and it was bad enough to hold onto after that time says something.

We actually have a number of "things" that really turned us off. And I know you want some disclosure so here is one example. Imagine standing in the builder's shop and as you are writing out the check for a new engine order he says in a mumbling sort of stutter "oh yeah, I used the wrong pushrods in that other engine. Don't worry I shipped you the right ones."

Ahh, while I am reminiscing about the place there was also the time we waited on a custom build FE from the guy "known for building FEs." After 3 months late, get a phone call that he's sending us a check back because he "can't get it to stop leaking oil". That was a fun call to make to the customer...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

... he had a bad experience, whatever that was and it was bad enough to hold onto after that time says something.

It doesn't say anything, unless he tells us what it was. If he says nothing, then that tends to lend credence to the possibility that he was merely overreacting or had unrealistic expectations.

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Imagine standing in the builder's shop and as you are writing out the check for a new engine order he says in a mumbling sort of stutter "oh yeah, I used the wrong pushrods in that other engine. Don't worry I shipped you the right ones."

The wrong size or simply not the brand that the customer had specified? Sounds rather minor to me, and I like a man that freely admits when he is wrong.

Originally Posted by Cashburn

...we waited on a custom build FE from the guy "known for building FEs." After 3 months late, get a phone call that he's sending us a check back because he "can't get it to stop leaking oil". That was a fun call to make to the customer...

That sounds honorable to me. A craftsman who says there is something wrong with the engine, maybe the block (and I don't even know if on this example he got to pick the block or even had a partially assembled engine sent to him) and he's effectively saying "I don't think I can make you happy with this engine so I'm giving you your money back -- I'll just eat the cost of my time and efforts." What more could you possibly expect?

I don't know -- it sounds like you and ERAChas are a bit unreasonable on this issue....

[RodKnock]

If someone wants to hold a grudge, even for 20 years, and doesn't want to discuss in public, then I don't begrudge him that. We've all been in this hobby for many years, I think everyone, at one time or another, has had a bad experience.

Sheesh, I still hold a grudge of 25 years (+/-) against Al Knoch for screwing me over on a carpet set order for my '66 Corvette. And, no, I don't want to discuss it with you Patrick.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And, no, I don't want to discuss it with you Patrick.

I think you'd feel better if you did.

[Cashburn]

In both cases presented, the spec. and source of parts were done solely by Joe Lapine himself. Admitting you were wrong several months after the fact and drop shipping a set of pushrods for the customer to install themselves is not how we do business here and among the reasons our business relationship ended.

A great engine builder can have a bad engine among a hundred or so, and a bad engine builder can have a great engine among a hundred or so... I did not need any more experiences with DCE to find out which way it goes. And I type experiences due to other issues.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

In both cases presented, the spec. and source of parts were done solely by Joe Lapine himself. Admitting you were wrong several months after the fact and drop shipping a set of pushrods for the customer to install themselves is not how we do business here and among the reasons our business relationship ended.

A great engine builder can have a bad engine among a hundred or so, and a bad engine builder can have a great engine among a hundred or so... I did not need any more experiences with DCE to find out which way it goes. And I type experiences due to other issues.

Alright, I won't bug you about it anymore then. He probably saves his best work for ERA customers anyway.

[aspenbubba]

Originally Posted by tkb289

Along with those listed above, you might want to check out Danbury Competition Engines, listed on the ERA FIA index. From what I have read, Danbury Competition has a great reputation and has done a lot of motors for ERA customers.

- Tim

I wouldn't recommend them . Had trouble within 700 miles on a mild 351W. Poor customer service from the owner. Said bring it up and he would look at it (400 miles) . I have a friend that had issues with them also. I bought the car turn-key from a sub dealer who bought an engine from DCE that was cancelled by a potential owner and was to be installed in the top fiberglass Cobra manufacturered in N. E. My assembler would not buy from them again also.

[aspenbubba]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Yes, that length of time indicates you're successful and not lacking for customers. Also enjoying the support of a stellar reputation company like ERA indicates that as well.

However, the low compression, pump gas "basic" FE is what Joe's recommended for. It is expedient to sell this kind of package to many ERA turnkey buyers. The proximity factor adds to the appeal. Many are durable, 'journeyman' engines lasting many years in street and parade duty.

These are essentially rebuilds, not blueprinted unless requested and not exactly cutting edge motors As Tom Lucas, Keith, Barry or George build.

Going back two decades the distinction was less well defined. What you wanted and what you got were not always the same and investigating the difference was not met with "customer service".

Apparently Cashburn has had more recent dissatisfaction.

I didn't read the whole thread and still havent but I agree with Cashburn as he put my car together and provided me engine parts when he had no responsibility to do so. I would always recommend Vintage and Backdraft and steer away from DCE. The customer who cancelled the ERA car and I ended up with the engine was fortunate. Cheap Mr. Gaskets gaskets were just one of the culprits.Thanks Jay.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Alright, I won't bug you about it anymore then. He probably saves his best work for ERA customers anyway.

See Aspenbubba's post. He got one of the engines that Joe had but ERA never picked up

[Cashburn]

Hey Larry... as long as it is running proper now we are all good. It was a real adventure that car took between our shop and your garage.

[aspenbubba]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

Hey Larry... as long as it is running proper now we are all good. It was a real adventure that car took between our shop and your garage.

Thanks Jay. If Patrick would meet at some of our gatherings with the CACC guys he would know what stellar reputation Joe Lapine has among our guys.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by aspenbubba

Thanks Jay. If Patrick would meet at some of our gatherings with the CACC guys he would know what stellar reputation Joe Lapine has among our guys.

Saturday mornings are awfully early. God knows I need my beauty sleep. I'm starting to think that engine building is all luck anyway; I don't think there's any real skill involved.

[AKDreamer23]

http://www.ffcobra.com/forums/showth...6amp%3BL+lloyd

[aspenbubba]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Saturday mornings are awfully early. God knows I need my beauty sleep. I'm starting to think that engine building is all luck anyway; I don't think there's any real skill involved.

C'mon Patrick get you a$$ out of bed . The VI breakfast will cure whatever ails you. You will never meet a nicer bunch of guys and it would be great to have someone there with your expertise. BTW, the friend that has a bad DCE has it in an ERA. We have over 20 different manufacturers represented in our club including one built from scratch (aluminum).

We also have a show in Middleburg October17th with a lunch and wine tour following. Also we are doing the annual Rehoboth Fun Run the first weekend in October and are visiting the guys and gals at Walter Reed Army Hospital on October 10th so that the Wounded Warriors get to see our cars and speak with us. Get on our website and contribute some of your experiences with us.
Larry

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by aspenbubba

C'mon Patrick get you a$$ out of bed . The VI breakfast will cure whatever ails you. You will never meet a nicer bunch of guys and it would be great to have someone there with your expertise. BTW, the friend that has a bad DCE has it in an ERA. We have over 20 different manufacturers represented in our club including one built from scratch (aluminum).

We also have a show in Middleburg October17th with a lunch and wine tour following. Also we are doing the annual Rehoboth Fun Run the first weekend in October and are visiting the guys and gals at Walter Reed Army Hospital on October 10th so that the Wounded Warriors get to see our cars and speak with us. Get on our website and contribute some of your experiences with us.
Larry

Larry, remember we chatted two years ago outside the VI? You even told me about how you were unhappy with Joe L., and you asked if my FE leaked, and I put my hand behind the left valve cover and wiped and pulled out a wet oily finger (I've since fixed that).

[aspenbubba]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Larry, remember we chatted two years ago outside the VI? You even told me about how you were unhappy with Joe L., and you asked if my FE leaked, and I put my hand behind the left valve cover and wiped and pulled out a wet oily finger (I've since fixed that).

Patrick you need your beauty sleep and I need to get a prescription for ARICEPT for my faulty memory. I was very new to the club several years ago but didn't you show up with another ERA at the same time? I hope some of the others didn't chase you away. We would love to have you back and play with us and I will make sure the others behave except for Elder as there is no fixing him.

At least come down to Middleburg with a friend and show your car as we had over 30 cars there last year .They block off a street right off the main drag and believe it or not they (the townspeople ) invited us back .

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by aspenbubba

Patrick you need your beauty sleep and I need to get a prescription for ARICEPT for my faulty memory. I was very new to the club several years ago but didn't you show up with another ERA at the same time? I hope some of the others didn't chase you away. We would love to have you back and play with us and I will make sure the others behave except for Elder as there is no fixing him.

Well, I guess I'm just not as impressive in real life. It was the same ERA -- and I did manage to make it over to Elder's house last year for the weigh-in. I even brought my youngest along and he took shots of all the cars and posted them on the CACC web site. I will admit that I don't get to the events all that often. I'm going to try and do better on that because I do really enjoy them.

EDIT -- Oh, I see what you meant, Yes there was another ERA there that day. Dang, who needs that ARICEPT now?

[ERA Chas]

OK Counselor Pat, take off the fools cap and move away from the keyboard.

It is fortunate for us here that you have appointed yourself Interpreter of Posted Text, Director of Forum Opinion, Chief Thinker and Analyzer and Arbiter of All Things Cobra, so that none of we sheep have to do that for ourselves. Your zeal is particularly apparent in your incessant persecution of all Factory Five products and their owners. All executed with the smugness and authority of a truly superior being who owns (but did not build) God’s Own Cobra Replica. And alas, you have toiled mightily at that task with nearly 9000 posts in 4 years.

Since your admitted penchant for daily diversion is to instigate, irritate, illustrate and propagate all things ERA and expound expertise on EVERYTHING including the human psyche, I will reply to the chirps from your cricket legs rubbing together. I know that, perversely-this will secretly delight you. Someone actually paying attention to you.

PAT:
"Chas, 20 years and you're still holding a grudge?!? C'mon."

CHAS: Er no, no grudge- from post 38:
"No Pat. Just reporting my experience from that far back.
The point was, Lapine apparently still operates that way to this day as evidenced by Cashburn.
I now have a far superior engine from a local machinist. I did not go back to Joe for more of the same treatment."
C’mon PAT! My point, which was lost on NO ONE except you, was that Joe still operates that way today as evidenced by Jay and later by his customer Aspenbubba.

PAT:
"Clearly, there are lingering hard feelings..."
CHAS:
NOT AT ALL CLEAR. I never bashed Lapine or his work, just described it so that a shopper of his service today might be advised to ask hard questions or look elsewhere. Jay proved that a prudent caution. Nice cheap tactic though – begin to create drama amongst the sheep. Move up your rook.

767:
"I gotta be honest, Pat - although I'm not proud of it, 20 years from now I am still not going to buy a Genesis product."

CHAS:
Here Ray says essentially what I implied; namely that I didn’t go back for a second beating when I repowered. BTW, you did a great job on this poor guy while he was working through his problem. For your own amusement and to display your cleverness, you posted weekly prompts for results in his build thread which were painful and distracting to his effort.

PAT:
"Perhaps if Chas. told us the whole story he would feel better, or at least that would allow us to judge whatever happened in the proper light."

CHAS:
"Perhaps" is such a superior word to "maybe"-elevates the user's status...Thank you for the soothing words to prompt a therapeutic cleansing of my tortured soul. BUT:
Where is it written on here that anyone has to judge a posted experience in “the proper light”? Or judge ANYTHING?
Build the drama, begin to marshal opinion that there’s something fishy or more to my “story”. Move up your bishop.

ROD:
"Careful Chas, Patrick may send you bill in the mail for this therapeutic time at $175/hour."
CHAS:
Thanks pal but it’s apparent our boy here needs shrinkage that bills higher rates than that.

PAT:
"Well, we all know Chas. is "wound a bit tight" to begin with."

CHAS:
I DIDN”T know that WE ALL knew I was “wound a bit tight”! Everyone’s been so nice to me when I posted questions or tips from experience. Only thing I wind tight is 6800 RPM.
C’mon PAT! We all know that the definition of “wound tight” is a guy that needs TWO ROLL BARS wrapped in black mattresses bound with electrical tape! Cutting edge race functionality AND aesthetic beauty! How else could you take kiddies for rides while on restaurant duty?

PAT:
"I just thought he might feel better, and the reading audience would get a better appreciation for what really happened, if he simply told us the full story."
CHAS:
Thanks, Director of Entertainment, for your concern for my feelings. See boys and girls? Chas is just sick, not evil. He just needs to get it out in the open. Then we can judge if he’s BS’ing us..

PAT:
"Right now he's left it with "I think I got screwed 20+ years ago, and I'm still pi$$ed about it, but I'm going to pretend like I'm not (even though I really am)." For all we know, it could have been something innocuous, like delivering the engine a week late and Chas. missed his favorite classic race, or perhaps it was something more."

CHAS:
OBJECTION YOUR HONOR! This is a fabrication and hearsay evidence and I move it be stricken from the record!
From the Jerry Springer School of Media Journalism. Nice piece of innuendo, sarcasm, and distortion. You'll get your own court show on channel 9 at 2AM with this one. I’m so mad I broke my crayon!

PAT:
"But unless Chas. takes the high road of "full disclosure," we'll never know...."

CHAS:
Alas -the ultimatum. This’ll make him tell us! (which all us sheep know I did in post #34, below)
"Going back two decades the distinction was less well defined. What you wanted and what you got were not always the same and investigating the difference was not met with 'customer service'."
I always thought that taking the high road was not airing dirty linen in the court of public opinion and warning without bashing.

JAY:
"Give Chas a break... he had a bad experience, whatever that was and it was bad enough to hold onto after that time says something."
CHAS:
Thanks for your support Jay, you obviously understood my otherwise elusive point.
Unfortunately, our boy here dissects your post #45 and explains to the rapt audience how you’ve gotten it all wrong. Those things that disadvantaged you were just poppycock and you’re making too much of it.

PAT:
"It doesn't say anything, unless he tells us what it was. If he says nothing, then that tends to lend credence to the possibility that he was merely overreacting or had unrealistic expectations."

CHAS:
Queen check!
Ah yes, the final diagnosis for the mindless. Either he tells us the sordid truth or his silence MUST mean that miscreant Chas is a fibber and just likes to hear himself type!

DUDE!-Get a life. Your tactics are transparent and lame. You'd be a Maven on the WWF site.
Stick to the technical side and try to help guys out on here. Quit bashing and displaying superiority-it’s unbecoming and makes guys think you’re a disk. They will do the same for you.
Remember, you fence with the bull, you get the horns.
-Only we didn’t say “fence”.
Until then, put on your powdered wig, and have a bottle of port-it’s almost time for Judge Judy...

[patrickt]

Dang, how long did it take you to write all that up?