Will a 4.6 Terminator fit???

[Temptation]

I have been researching cobra's and been eyeing a FFR. Today I decided to take a trip to the local Superformance dealer and was extremely happy with the fit, finish and overall package.

So now on to the question... anyone have any measurements of the engine compartment of the MKIII? Has anyone fit a 4.6L terminator with a Whipple in one of these chassis?

At first glance, it looks like the steering linkage could be a problem, but thought I would post and hear what you all have to say?

Michael

[Great Asp]

I think this is a Shelby car, and a 5.4

E

[PANAVIA]

Yup - that is a CSX/Shelby car -- you can tell from the top of that radiator mounting and the firewall.

[Heidelberg]

I know that Superformance have successfully used the 5.4 litre modular twin cam motor in the SPF mark III for the Australian and UK markets...

When I decided to go with Superformance when I was deciding on which Cobra to go for, the demonstrator car that the Australian importer of SPFs had for me to test drive was a 5.4 modular motor mated to a close ratio T56 six speed... I was not a fan of the motor, but the finish quality, chassis dynamics/road holding sold me and I signed up the next day!

Regards......Paul

[Powershift1038]

Good Lord that would be awesome. I can't imagine my Whippled 4.6 DOHC SVT motor being put into my old SPF car. Yikes... and OH YES.. at the same time. LOL

[RedBarchetta]

I believe J.Walker is going the 4.6 route in his solid black SPF...should be on the road any day now.

[Temptation]

Originally Posted by Powershift1038

Good Lord that would be awesome. I can't imagine my Whippled 4.6 DOHC SVT motor being put into my old SPF car. Yikes... and OH YES.. at the same time. LOL

Yeah... my thoughts as well. I wonder if it would be too much... but then again we tend to beg the question...

when is it enough

[Temptation]

I appreciate everyones response

I heard (or read... not sure) from one source that Superformance made changes to accommodate the 4.6 DOHC, but the dealer could not confirm and if/when the changes occurred.


On a positive note... we tore the 4.6L down and will begin finding a builder. One of the piston took a hit, not sure if wrist pin) and 2 of the bearings look awful.

Anyone have references on 4.6 Ford builders in the Chicagoland area?

Thanks again

Michael

[Mark IV]

The Mod motor does fit the SPF MK III. The chassis must be ordered with the fitment option as the mount and steering shaft are different.

We would be pleased to quote you a chassis to your specifications.

Rick

[ratsnst1]

I was wondering is that twin cam moter a brand new moter, and if it is, then wouldnt need a smog pump.

[eschaider]

Mike,

SPF modified the chassis sometime prior to my chassis which is 2291. I believe the change involved moving the steering slightly outboard to clear the engine. When I got mine in 2006 the only modular motor SPF had headers for was the 4.6, that may have changed since then to include the 5.4. You ought to check before buying engines or engine pieces.

You will find that a Whippled 4.6 with moderate boost in the 16 -17 psi area produces about 600 RWHP by 6000 rpm which is gigantic in one of these chassis. To help put RWHP in context to FWHP divide by ~.85 which means the 'little' 4.6 is somewhere around 700 FWHP or possibly slightly more.

The most important consideration from a seat of the pants driver's point of view however is torque. The Whippled version of the 4.6 produces between 550 and 600 ft/lbs of torque from below 2000 rpm, depending on how you have tuned it. This can be difficult to hook up if you are not prepared and equally difficult to manage in turns if you are not careful.

I am not sure that a 5.4 makes a lot of sense partly because of the power available from the 4.6 and partly because you will find yourself using a lot of FGT 5.4 pieces which are staggeringly expensive.

Ed

[Temptation]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Mike,

SPF modified the chassis sometime prior to my chassis which is 2291. I believe the change involved moving the steering slightly outboard to clear the engine. When I got mine in 2006 the only modular motor SPF had headers for was the 4.6, that may have changed since then to include the 5.4. You ought to check before buying engines or engine pieces.

You will find that a Whippled 4.6 with moderate boost in the 16 -17 psi area produces about 600 RWHP by 6000 rpm which is gigantic in one of these chassis. To help put RWHP in context to FWHP divide by ~.85 which means the 'little' 4.6 is somewhere around 700 FWHP or possibly slightly more.

The most important consideration from a seat of the pants driver's point of view however is torque. The Whippled version of the 4.6 produces between 550 and 600 ft/lbs of torque from below 2000 rpm, depending on how you have tuned it. This can be difficult to hook up if you are not prepared and equally difficult to manage in turns if you are not careful.

I am not sure that a 5.4 makes a lot of sense partly because of the power available from the 4.6 and partly because you will find yourself using a lot of FGT 5.4 pieces which are staggeringly expensive.

Ed

Ed- thansk for the info.... it is great to know one of these machines are capable of stufifng a 4.6 up front. I have the engine (4.6L terminator with 23K from an 03 Mustang Cobra... which is currently tore down and looking for a builder. Not being an expert... our conclusion is the motor suffered oil starvation causing two of the main bearing to wear and crack one of the piston rings. why the left bank timing chain bound up is beyond us (maybe the chain tensioner) The motor was tuned with 17psi driven by a whipple. However the car (classic mustang) was roughly 800-1000 pounds heavier.

One good thing to know is there would not be a shortage of power and would truley need to respect the vehicle that much more. (probably say prayer each time the key is turned )

Looking at your signature... I see you have a 4.6? what are your thoughts on the balance and driveability? any issues with the half shaft (CV) handling the power?

Appreciate your response

Mike

[Temptation]

Originally Posted by ratsnst1

I was wondering is that twin cam moter a brand new moter, and if it is, then wouldnt need a smog pump.

the motor is from a 03 cobra and was built with road racing in mind. not sure what you mean by smog pump? since the vehicle iI ma thinking on building would be titled in Illinois, are there emissions specific to the year of the motor that must be maintained? ODBII compliant?

[Temptation]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

The Mod motor does fit the SPF MK III. The chassis must be ordered with the fitment option as the mount and steering shaft are different.

We would be pleased to quote you a chassis to your specifications.

Rick

you have a pm....

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Temptation

... Looking at your signature... I see you have a 4.6? what are your thoughts on the balance and driveability? any issues with the half shaft (CV) handling the power?

Appreciate your response

Mike

Mike,

If you don't drag race the car with sticky tires you will probably be OK. If you do then the half shafts and the CV joints represent tender spots but are fixable. When you do this you begin chasing down all the weak points one by one.

Strange engineering can make replacement half shafts to fit. The CV joints can/should be upgraded to the big 934 Porsche units. When you do this you will need to make adapters for the stub axles and or make replacement stub axles. Strange can help again on this initiative.

An alternative would be to go the Spicer 1350 route and convert to universal joints. If you were going this route most of the pieces will be custom made. Given that you are in the custom territory I would move up to the 1420 series universal joints for the half shafts.

I don't know which is stronger the 1420 joints or the Porsche 934 CV joints. Both are very big. The CVs are nice because of their constant velocity attribute and the load bearing ball bearings are 1" in diameter literally dwarfing anything else out there. The universal joints are nice because of familiarity. Both work.

When you price out replacement ring and pinions for the Australian Spicer you will faint. Last time I checked the ring and pinion were north of $600 and gear selection is poor. If you don't need a gear change my suggestion would be use the Aussie unit until it fails and replace it with a 8.875 Mark VIII/Cobra/Thunderbird IRS center from FRPP or a similar piece from the junkyard. Make sure you install it with 31 spline side gears the 28 spline units are tender.

Car balance is extraordinary. When you rebuild if you use an Aluminator block the complete engine including blower comes in slightly over 400 lbs which makes for very nice balance in the car. The package approximates the weight of an original 289. It is possible that it is even lighter than an original 289.

Like any high powered vehicle you need to respect it. With a positive displacement screw blower there is no ramp up in the power delivery its all there instantly - because of the blower. If this is your first foray into cars at this power level go slow and get to know your car. You won't have problems being fast or powerful you will have problems controlling it. You might find real value in a driving school like Bondurant's especially if you intend to track the car.

Closing thought - the reason you have internal damage to the engine is an oiling system failure. The stock oiling system is woefully inadequate. When you redo your engine consider an external wet sump oiling system, one of Canton's or Moroso's Accusump oil accumulators if you track the car and a custom pan. If you like the pan I did when you get to that stage PM me and I will send you the prints for it. Check out my gallery and you can see some of the pieces that I used.

Almost forgot, the alternator will interfere with everything when you go to install the engine. It needs to be moved. If you go this route, again PM me and I will send you a print for a replacement pulley bridge that mounts the alternator on the second drive sheave separate from the blower drive. This is important not only for clearance but also for alternator life. When you speed up the blower with a crank pulley change you also speed up the alternator - which is a kiss of death for the alternator.

Club Cobra is an extraordinary source of info on and for building our cars. The best place I found for Terminator engine support is the Mod Fords website http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f...splay.php?f=17 Between the two sites you will have a great time, a rewarding build and an exceptional Cobra.


Ed

[Bill E]

Wow it is nice to see good information that is being passed on here. We have ben using the 4.6 since 96 Best bang for the buck. Avaid has pans on the shelf now for us best ground clearance and oil handling. as far as superchargers go the stock Eaton can be ported to perform with the best of the after market chargers. Lots of places offer this service around $300.00 In my opinion it is a better looking unit as well ,( check out my gallery. Shon Hyland Is a great sores for hard to find part. Now 600 Hp in a SPF that is just nuts. it is like a mini bike with a hyabusa in it. It will make you slower at the track, Unless you do a lot of work to the rest of the car. Be honest with your self. What level of driver are you now. Go to a school , see if you improve. How much are you going to track the car? Will it sit in the garage because you are to afraid to drive it? Still would be Cool though.

[fordracing65]

It fits like a glove.