Superformance and GM to Make Big Announcement at 2010 SEMA Show

[xlr8tr]

Ive seen one of the Grand Sports up close- beautiful. The only issue was that with the 4" tube frame, it was just too small inside for me. Could have made the legroom work but headroom was a real issue. Hersch, that SRiii style perimeter frame would solve the issue, allow the seat to sit on the floorpan.

How is Mongoose going to do with this new fully licensed option- wonder if GM will get pissy.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by xlr8tr

How is Mongoose going to do with this new fully licensed option- wonder if GM will get pissy.

If by "prissy" you mean, sue them? Yes, they have!

I have no issue with Mongoose but I do have pictures of the GS at the factory in Port Elizabeth...

[Mark IV]

More pix....

On slave wheels and tires.....

[RestoCreations]

Originally Posted by SP01715

I owned a 63 covertible small block Vette about 15 years ago. I wish I still owned it because the car is worth alot more now (sold it for 35k with just under 50k miles), but the performance was lacking. It was slow and handled like crap. IMO it would take alot of work and cash to get good performance from a clone using a real one. I would opt for the replica if it were my money.

Surprisingly, they handle pretty well given that that suspension design is almost 50 years old. Im guessing you had a car that had worn out springs, bushings, etc. Mine were the same way when i purchased them, but with new springs, rubber bushings, and upgraded shocks, they are ok. However the 327 really needs upgraded heads and other components to handle well. Actually, so do most of the 427 cars. You have to remember that these cars have around 1,000 pounds of extra fat on them compared to the original and replica cobras.

I could be wrong about the bodies-i have book after book after book and they all state that the bodies were not different from a regular production 63. The glass is so thin and the bodies are so light anyway-really surprising that they would thin them out, but i guess anything is possible. One way or another though, those molds were destroyed a long time ago-whether it be for the mid year corvette, the grand sport, or otherwise.

In regards to the 63 being worth more than 35,000-i dont know if that is really accurate right now. If you are taking prices from Barrett-jackson, maybe, but it is hard to even get 45,000 for a fully restored, matching numbers car in the current market.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's basically only an engine and hood swap. And if you do it to a base engine model, I don't think too many people will care. Maybe put in a radio delete, heater delete, transitorized ignition, but there is not much else I believe, unless you get fanatical about the springs, sway bar, or whatever else was different with the performance packages. I don't think there is anything to cut up. In fact, you may be better off to look for a clone that somebody already has done, as I have seen them myself.



I believe it's also cheaper for them to make and sell you the "upgraded", lighter parts, and yet still charge you the same for the entire package, enhancing / maintaining their profit. Shelby is doing the same.



That's good, because you never know who may want to make a copy of your car. I think that anybody who is not into cobra's, like the majority of car collectors, consider all of our cars fakey doos, and whether or not they're in the registry is a moot selling point.

The big one for me is the flared fenders. And generally the cars with flared fenders are junk to start with. I'd rather start with a new slate with no poor fiberglass repairs where I have to install a new front and rear clip. Nearly every Vette has been hit hard front and rear over the past 50 years.

If coil over suspensions, brakes, electronics, gauges and all the modern technology and geometry that's available today, be it cheaper or not. I hope SPF uses the latest and greatest. I'd rather start with Wilwood or Baer and go from there. I just don't want to have to restore the stock suspension and brakes of all that expensive original junk underneath an original midyear or even cut up a nice base Vette. Nice base model mid-year Vettes should not be cut up either.

Don't understand your last point. While I'm not in the market for a repro GS, I would rather buy a brand spanking new one from SPF than restore an entire bent original mid-year front to back. I've been there and done that with my 1966 Corvette Big Block Convertible and it's very expensive. I would want a brand new and having a fake GS doesn't bother me one bit.

[Anthony]

I was talking about cloning a L88 or ZL1, not a GS. I think the L88's/ZL1 had a different base suspension, but for the most part, still was a standard vette, unlike the GS vettes which were completely different cars other than the running gear and outside general body shape.

If the Superformance GS roller is $90K, then add another $20-30K for the engine tranny if you want to replicate it. For $110K you could have a really nice vette, or maybe 2 really nice vettes. I would never spend $110K for a GS replica, but again, most people wouldn't spend what I/we spend on our cobra's either. I kind of think it's going to be a tough sell. Will they sell some, yes, but I don't think they're going to take off even close to the cobra market.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I was talking about cloning a L88 or ZL1, not a GS. I think the L88's/ZL1 had a different base suspension, but for the most part, still was a standard vette, unlike the GS vettes which were completely different cars other than the running gear and outside general body shape.

If the Superformance GS roller is $90K, then add another $20-30K for the engine tranny if you want to replicate it. For $110K you could have a really nice vette, or maybe 2 really nice vettes. I would never spend $110K for a GS replica, but again, most people wouldn't spend what I/we spend on our cobra's either. I kind of think it's going to be a tough sell. Will they sell some, yes, but I don't think they're going to take off even close to the cobra market.

Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. You're absolutely correct. A '67 L88 would be easy to replicate in terms of what parts are needed to change it from a SB car, but I still don't want to start a ground up restification of any mid-year Vette since virtually EVERYTHING will need to be replaced. At least with an SPF GS, you could start with everything brand new, like my Kirkham or whatever manufacturer.

Brand new means more than fakey doo unless you're dealing with some rare car.

[RestoCreations]

This would have made a good candidate!!! I put this guy back together about 5 years ago, but sold it once the body was complete. Parts were way too expensive to finish the car and it came with absolutely nothing-it had been stripped for parts. It had originally been a Silver Blue 64 Coupe with dark blue interior and power brakes. That was all the detective work i could do. Looking back, i should have made the body into GS, but for some reason that never crossed my mind.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

Surprisingly, they handle pretty well given that that suspension design is almost 50 years old. Im guessing you had a car that had worn out springs, bushings, etc. Mine were the same way when i purchased them, but with new springs, rubber bushings, and upgraded shocks, they are ok. However the 327 really needs upgraded heads and other components to handle well. Actually, so do most of the 427 cars. You have to remember that these cars have around 1,000 pounds of extra fat on them compared to the original and replica cobras.

I could be wrong about the bodies-i have book after book after book and they all state that the bodies were not different from a regular production 63. The glass is so thin and the bodies are so light anyway-really surprising that they would thin them out, but i guess anything is possible. One way or another though, those molds were destroyed a long time ago-whether it be for the mid year corvette, the grand sport, or otherwise.

In regards to the 63 being worth more than 35,000-i dont know if that is really accurate right now. If you are taking prices from Barrett-jackson, maybe, but it is hard to even get 45,000 for a fully restored, matching numbers car in the current market.

The car had just over 40k miles on it when I bought it. Maybe the suspension could have been worn, but with only 40k miles I would be surprised. I think upgraded components is what it needed. The 327, like you said, was lacking power. The car was a cool cruiser and attracted alot of attention, but it was not a car that performed well. My 64 tri-power GTO was a much better performer than my vette.

I have not kept up with prices since the economy crashed. If 35k is a good price for that car now, that is sad.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. You're absolutely correct. A '67 L88 would be easy to replicate in terms of what parts are needed to change it from a SB car, but I still don't want to start a ground up restification of any mid-year Vette since virtually EVERYTHING will need to be replaced. At least with an SPF GS, you could start with everything brand new, like my Kirkham or whatever manufacturer.

Brand new means more than fakey doo unless you're dealing with some rare car.

I agree 100% with this statement. Starting with a new car would be much easier. If you would rather spend the 100k or so on a real vette it would be a different animal then a Replica GS. Depends what you want.

[RestoCreations]

Where is the misconception on the midyear vette prices? A matching number 427-435hp 67 might bring over or around a 100 right now, but you can even purchase a restored 1965 with a 396/425hp or a 66 427/425hp or 390hp for around 65-70 right now. If you were ever looking to buy a nice midyear vette, now is the time. If you simply wanted a donor car, there are plenty of non matching nice drivers for around 30,000. A 63-64 would work best for the grand sport since they have the non functional horizontal louvers in the front quarter panels as did the grand sports. 1964 models are the least valuable-you can steal them all day long right now. Cars that have 60 invested are going for 35,000. Anyway, that is not what this thread is about, so i will get off my soap box now.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by SP01715

I agree 100% with this statement. Starting with a new car would be much easier. If you would rather spend the 100k or so on a real vette it would be a different animal then a Replica GS. Depends what you want.

Often times, at least the gazillions of mid-year Vettes that I've seen, looked like mosh pits underneath. Twisted metal, bad fiberglass repairs, etc.

Restoring the gauge cluster, IRS, rear wheel t-arms, interior, K-H brakes, PS, PW, PB, TI, gas tank, and all the little itty bitty parts all over the car. To me, it's seems like a nightmare now, that I did all that to my Vette over my long ownership.

Nope, I'd rather start with a nice pristine clean brand new whatever-mobile.

Just about every classic car is down in price with the possible exception of the early 911's. I would love to have a nice clean 1973 911 Targa T, E or S. Of course, having a modern 3.6 L installed it would make me every happy, since I'm not purist.

[RestoCreations]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Often times, at least the gazillions of mid-year Vettes that I've seen, looked like mosh pits underneath. Twisted metal, bad fiberglass repairs, etc.

Restoring the gauge cluster, IRS, rear wheel t-arms, interior, K-H brakes, PS, PW, PB, TI, gas tank, and all the little itty bitty parts all over the car. To me, it's seems like a nightmare now, that I did all that to my Vette over my long ownership.

Nope, I'd rather start with a nice pristine clean brand new whatever-mobile.

Just about every classic car is down in price with the possible exception of the early 911's. I would love to have a nice clean 1973 911 Targa T, E or S. Of course, having a modern 3.6 L installed it would make me every happy, since I'm not purist.

I agree! I have performed 5 frame off restorations on midyear corvettes and i will never do another due to the amount of time and frustration that is involved with restoring some of the 45-50 year old parts. You could win big by buying an already restored vette currently, but unless you crawl all over the car, you will not know what you are getting. You must watch out for rotten frames as well. One out of the 5 cars that i have, did not have significant fiberglass repair and that was because it was taken off the road from 1974-2009. If panels have been replaced with new press molded units instead of patched, then it should not be a problem. However, most older repairs were done with patches since the press molded repro panels were not available at the time. One out of the 5 cars i have restored had a fiberglass tub that had been beat on the underside due to the u joints failing. When they failed, it allowed the half shafts to swing freely into the jack well and gas tank cross member support. If you are in the market, look for cars that do not have a painted tub. The underside of midyears came bare from the factory and should look like this



Like i said above, my days of restorations are over. I love being able to pull new parts out of a box for the Kirkham and simply bolt them on. Less tools, less mess, 1/10th the time. And you dont have to worry about not reusing a 50 year old part because if you dont, it might lower the value of the car. Choosing your own adventure is nice and a lot more fun.

[SP01715]

I agree again knock. I have a 49 Caddy that I have almost 50k in right now, and still needs stuff done. The car is not worth the money I have in it. If it was not started by my dad before he died I never would have touched it. Old cars can be money pits.

[RodKnock]

With the help of friend, we did not do a frame off resto, but I know I R&R'ed every part at least once on my Vette, and some stuff 2-3 times. I did the exact same thing with a Sunbeam Tiger.

Cloning an 1967 L88 sounds great on paper, but I get the chills just thinking about how expensive it would be to buy just the special air cleaner setup for the L88 hood.

Just a guess, but I bet a quality repro of the L88 hood is probably a couple grand.

And if you don't have the soft top frame...look out.

I love mid-year Vettes, but I don't even want to look at buying another one in this lifetime. I applaud SPF for bringing the 289 and the GS to market in this or any economy. I hope they continue R&D on new products for the future.

[Excaliber]

Our expectations sure change over the years, as technology advances. I used to think my Austin Healey 3000 handled terrific and certainly had more power than those MG's I was used to. Vette's were never a consideration for myself, just wasn't inspired by them.

XKE's were cool, but again, compared to today's stuff, they aren't all that. The search for a decent combination of handling AND power, I went through a bunch of cars searching for that, ended with the Cobra. I'm a happy camper.