Superformance and GM unveil their 1963 Corvette Grand Sport - Page 2

Excaliber · #21 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 07:02 AM

I thought it was only me... I don't care for the hood vents, they look to "over the top" for my taste.

As far as "accuracy" goes, I am reminded of the Shelby Coupe to some degree. As a race car when put on the street it was fairly miserable.

Some allowances have to be made for at least reasonable comfort.

speed220mph · #22 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 08:17 AM

It's great that the Dark Siders now have a car for installing their engines! But it makes me wonder how well a BB Ford fits?

n1kon · #23 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 09:21 AM

[quote=Mark IV;1087434]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n1kon

No original had side exhaust like that.

There are also a few other notes that drastically differ from Grand Sports.

1. Turn signals are sticking out and are not recessed like original.
2. Gills are missing from the quarter panels.
3. Holes are missing from the rear.
4. They put chrome bezels on the tail lights which is not right.
5. They are missing the flat panels for the headlights.

QUOTE]

There ARE some differences but remember there are Supeformance STREET Grand Sports (built in South Africa) and RACE Grand Sports built at Duntov in Texas.

As there was never a "street" Grand Sport some allowances had to be made to allow useful street driving. The rear gills and vent holes between the tail lamps were deleted to allow a real, sealed trunk. The race versions have those features.

Understand that the chassis is as close as possible to the original GS, the special rear diff carrier has been replicated, the hubs, etc. of the GS has been duplicated. It would not be possible to take an original GS and drive it on the street with any sort of legality or usefulness!

I can say that if that is really their choice then it probably won't be popular at all to people in the GS market. People in that market want a GS and not what Superformance thinks the street version would look like.

Think about it like this. What if Superformance just got the license for the Cobra and only made the street version but their street version was their version of the street version that looks nothing like anything that ever actually existed. How popular would that be? A street version to me is something that looks exactly like them just has creature comforts.

It would be a deal breaker for me and probably for a lot of people in that market as well...especially for the price they are charging.

That being said, it is a prototype and I am pretty sure they will add/change the features I mentioned and the final production model will look right. I mean why in the world would they go through the trouble of getting the original molds and then change it?

SunDude · #24 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 10:23 AM

Not sure I'd say that the Superformance Grand Sport looks "nothing like the original." It looks pretty close to me, save for the few details some posters have point out.

I guess time will tell whether no one will want one of these, or if there's enough of a market out there for SPF's version of the GS... complete with the trade offs they decided to make. I'd certainly bet there is.

Three Peaks · #25 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 12:41 PM

Frankly, unless there is a limitation on the numbers to be produced under their licensing agreement with GM I think their price point is way out of line for the SPF GS replica. Considering you could build two Cobras for the price, I don't see enough of a market at that price point to see it selling in any real numbers. Heck, at $90K for the roller, you are well into Shelby 4000 numbers and most GT40's, which have traditionally been higher priced than the Cobra replicas.

I guess time will tell...

Bob

ACademic · #26 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 01:00 PM

All price points aside, how many GS replicas have you seen at the local weekend "Cars & Coffee" gatherings lately? Or even the larger shows?

Exactly. One to none.

So forget the price point. Someone out there will pay good money and dare to be different. And with more anti-smog and big government legislation undoubtedly on the way (the green movement), you can bet that e-rods like this ARE the future. Look no further than Australia to see how they are adapting these high-powered GM engines to Cobras and everything else...because they HAVE to, not because they choose to. Australia is light years ahead of our level of thinking on this subject because of necessity. We will all be asking them for advice on this forum in 4-5 years.

The GS will most likely do just fine, even with low production numbers. It's more a marketing exercise by GM (Gee, wasn't the Ford GT the same goal for Ford?!? Ford did not make a dime on the Ford GT, but they won the hearts of many over). Plus Superformance gains additional exposure to cross-sell the rest of their fine line of offerings. A win-win. A no-brainer.

RodKnock · #27 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACademic

All price points aside, how many GS replicas have you seen at the local weekend "Cars & Coffee" gatherings lately? Or even the larger shows?

Exactly. One to none.

Not that you are, but I wouldn't base their future market on historical patterns. I could be like Patrick and quote some made-up percentage, but I'm sure nearly all mid-year Corvette buyers, pre-SPF GS, are purists and would never cut up any model mid-year Vette to produce a GS replica. That's why you don't see more.

If SPF/GM can get the SPF GS accepted into vintage racing, then I see a much larger market for it. Right now, most Corvette owners are purists and wouldn't buy a replica.

ACademic · #28 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I could be like Patrick and quote some made-up percentage, but I'm sure nearly all mid-year Corvette buyers, pre-SPF GS, are purists and would never cut up any model mid-year Vette to produce a GS replica.

Totally agree on the latter and please don't do the former.

We would also expect a photo essay to follow.

Excaliber · #29 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 02:32 PM

Hmmm, replica Cobra's are readily accepted (for the most part) because there won't be any "real" ones showing up at the local cruise in.

Now there WILL be plenty of local Vette's showing up. I wonder how the replica will be accepted, in general?

Price point: Why should it cost more than an SPF? I understand initial cost production concerns, but that would also apply to an SPF and the price didn't go balloon because of it. Of course if they don't meet a certain number of units sold, the price would HAVE to increase or production stop to recoup the investment.

FFR comes out with a Coupe, price aint to bad. Others do a 32 Deuce Coupe, price aint to bad. What makes the new GS any different? Frame, mold, suspension, other "parts", same same, just a different look.

SP01715 · #30 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 02:48 PM

Funny how an SPF product brings out the haters.

Excaliber · #31 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 02:56 PM

Well it wasn't bad enough they got into bed with Shelby, now they got into bed with Obama too! Whew, the company those guys keep.

...last time I checked, Obama bought a big part of GM after all.

RodKnock · #32 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Hmmm, replica Cobra's are readily accepted (for the most part) because there won't be any "real" ones showing up at the local cruise in.

Now there WILL be plenty of local Vette's showing up. I wonder how the replica will be accepted, in general?

Price point: Why should it cost more than an SPF? I understand initial cost production concerns, but that would also apply to an SPF and the price didn't go balloon because of it. Of course if they don't meet a certain number of units sold, the price would HAVE to increase or production stop to recoup the investment.

FFR comes out with a Coupe, price aint to bad. Others do a 32 Deuce Coupe, price aint to bad. What makes the new GS any different? Frame, mold, suspension, other "parts", same same, just a different look.

I'm not a Corvette historian, but I believe they only made six GS Vettes. Who in their right mind would vintage race them? I would speculate that they're worth about $1MM +/-. How many original GT40s are raced?

I think the SPF GT40 was accepted for vintage racing, why not the GS Vette?

I'm also not a mechanic or technoid type person, but I would have to believe that the SPF GS is a little more complicated to build than a Cobra or Deuce Coupe.

Also, last time I inquired the SPF GT40 was about $80K retail for a roller.

The market will speak one way or another. New products are fantastic.

ACademic · #33 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP01715

Funny how an SPF product brings out the haters.

How do they say it, "Jealousy is the finest form of flattery?" Sad to say but I have to agree with you on that comment.

I believe RodKnock put it best in saying that it's another new product. Variety is the spice of life; thank God someone out there is willing to invest their hard-earned cash and attempt to make a market in a replica vehicle that is both rare and still highly regarded in other circles. No guts, no glory. No pain, no gain. I hope they sell a gazillion because that's more for Cobra drivers to race!

Excaliber · #34 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

I think the SPF GT40 was accepted for vintage racing, why not the GS Vette?

Why not a Cobra, with right specs? I don't see why the Vette would be anymore or less complicated than a replica Cobra. Now the GT-40, OK, I can see that, it's not a typical round tube frame car, but the Vette is. Same for the Coupe, they COULD make it cheaper, easily, they choose to make it "high end". Many other companies make a Coupe for substantially less, as many other companies could make a GS for substantially less. It really comes down to how "nice" they want to make it, not how much it HAS to cost to make it.

Actually, I fail to see where any of this is a dig at SPF as a company. Maybe some SPF owners are feeling a little guilty about something, a little sensitive perhaps?

RodKnock · #35 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 04:03 PM

[quote=Excaliber;1087528]

Quote:

I don't see why the Vette would be anymore or less complicated than a replica Cobra.

First the Vette doesn't have a round tube frame, but I'm not 100% sure about the GS.

I have no idea how I became the torch carrier for the SPF brand, but here goes:

The body lines of the mid-year Vette and, even more so, the GS, seem far more complicated to my untrained eye. Also, the GS Vette has all sorts of little details both in the interior and exterior that the Cobra does not.

Further, I see that AC, PS and PW are all on the standard list.

http://www.superformance.com/corvette.aspx

And then, there's the GM license fee...

Excaliber · #36 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 04:21 PM

AC, PS and, your kidding, power Windows?, for crying out loud??!!! Sheeshhh, yeah that might impact production costs alright!

That being the case there are clearly looking for a limited up-scale market with some exclusivity. It's not a bad game plan.

A mold is a mold, perhaps a bit more contour than some but not a major factor in cost or assembly I would think.

Just a guess as to what the frame would be, round, square, whatever, it's just "stock" you buy from the metal guy. It's not going to be a stamped steel or whatever like GM used originally. It's all the "nice stuff" that will drive the cost up. Insulation for the AC, sound deadening so as not to offend the occupants, more wiring for the all the extra stuff (like power windows, interior lights, etc.), a thicker glass shell than the originals (for strength) and it all add's up to MORE WEIGHT (and cost).

This is gonna be just like in the 60's, any decent Cobra replica worth it's salt is going to kick the ass of this over weighted pig.

Of course, the Vette driver won't care, what with the AC on and the stereo blasting as he lowers the window asking for some Grey Poupon.

License fee should be a small item, it didn't have a major impact on SPF Cobra prices after all (and much cheaper than a team of lawyers).

n1kon · #37 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm not a Corvette historian, but I believe they only made six GS Vettes. Who in their right mind would vintage race them? I would speculate that they're worth about $1MM +/-. How many original GT40s are raced?

5 were made. Owner of #005 doesn't race his. #002 is in a museum. #003/001/004 all race in vintage races. They are worth in excess of 5 million and I think 002 just changed hands for just under 6 million.

I am not sure if the "hating" is referring to me but just in case it is...I am very happy for SPF I just hope that the final product looks exactly like it should. As a avid fan of a car just like you guys I am sure you understand what I am saying. I just want it to look correct. I notice all of the details

RodKnock · #38 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

This is gonna be just like in the 60's, any decent Cobra replica worth it's salt is going to kick the ass of this over weighted pig.

Of course, the Vette driver won't care, what with the AC on and the stereo blasting as he lowers the window asking for some Grey Poupon.

In my best Get Smart (Don Adams) impersonation...."Would you believe the import duties?"

Mark IV · #39 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 06:37 PM

[quote=RodKnock;1087523]I think the SPF GT40 was accepted for vintage racing, why not the GS Vette?
QUOTE]

Perhaps it will be. The Duntov race version Grand Sports should qualify for most vintage orginizers.

BT SNAKE · #40 (**permalink**) 11-03-2010, 08:15 PM

I've poked a little fun at Superformance's Vette But
I really think they do have a great product. The only thing I see kinda odd is their marketing strategy. They have ads here but none on the Corvette forum. To me that's like selling cigarettes in a cancer ward. My ads would be all over that Vette forum.
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe the majority on this forum are here because of the Cobra mystique. Yes, mine is Chevy powered but it's the shape I like. The Cobra shape is a contemporary classic and I'm not sure the Grand Sport is.

Hersh