Switching from pushrod to Coyote engine

[jessekershaw]

Hello,

I am interested in switching out a pushrod engine for one of the new Ford Racing Coyote engines.

I have chassis number: SP01758

From what I have read this is a Mk III chassis.

I have also read on here that the motor mounts and steering will have to be changed to those that Superformance sells with their modular kit.

I have verbally been told that this will not work without chopping up the chassis and major fabrication though I cannot find anything on here to support that.

I know that the Coyote is dimensionally almost identical to the 4.6L 4v engine and uses the same bellhousing bolt pattern as well as engine mounts.

If someone has done this or has a detailed list of what needs to be done I would greatly appreciate it. Any help is greatly appreciated.

This will be a winter project to swap over everything.

Thanks,

-Jesse

[fordracing65]

look at my page i have a 4 valve in there, if your car was pre modular acceptence then you will have to fabricate some under the hood, mine is number 2510, if I were u I would stay pushrod, 4 valve equals no torque unless power added.

[Dimis]

You might want to contact SPF direct as my info is only here-say.


BUT... from my understanding, there were some minor changes to the engine bay, widening it and lifting the recesses in the firewall, where the trans tunnel is, in order to fit the modular engine.
The changes you mentioned: steering links, motor mounts would be the least of your problems.

I'm not certain but I believe these changes were instigated around chassis no:2200, and built in to every kit there after. (someone pls verify).
I'm sure there's an SPF expert here that would know or perhaps try SCOF.

If you are happy fabricating, had the time, money, energy and wanted the challenge, I'm sure it could be managed.
It wouldn't be something I'd personally do, the gain would be far out weighted by the pain.

However, if you're still keen on a modular, then I say go for it.

It's more than enough engine & torque to enjoy in a car weighing in at around 2400# regardless of what people might tell you
...and you could always program a couple of settings on the ECU too, which would allow you to go from street cruising to balls-out racing with the flick of a switch.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Dimis

You might want to contact SPF direct as my info is only here-say.


BUT... from my understanding, there were some minor changes to the engine bay, widening it and lifting the recesses in the firewall, where the trans tunnel is, in order to fit the modular engine.
The changes you mentioned: steering links, motor mounts would be the least of your problems.

I'm not certain but I believe these changes were instigated around chassis no:2200, and built in to every kit there after. (someone pls verify).
I'm sure there's an SPF expert here that would know or perhaps try SCOF.

If you are happy fabricating, had the time, money, energy and wanted the challenge, I'm sure it could be managed.
It wouldn't be something I'd personally do, the gain would be far out weighted by the pain.

However, if you're still keen on a modular, then I say go for it.

It's more than enough engine & torque to enjoy in a car weighing in at around 2400# regardless of what people might tell you
...and you could always program a couple of settings on the ECU too, which would allow you to go from street cruising to balls-out racing with the flick of a switch.

Its not more than enough power, I have one, no torque equals no fun.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Its not more than enough power, I have one, no torque equals no fun.

You're are entitled to that thought, and there are others who may share it
I've driven a couple examples (various kits), and I have to respectfully disagree

Superformance Cobra with Mustang's Coyote 5.0L V8 - YouTube

Enjoy!


PS: this is NOT the one of any I've driven

[fordracing65]

Its second and third gear where you feel the power fade, first gear burnouts can be done in most manual cars, don't get me wrong my car hauls ass but ride in a 500 plus cube motor then you will feel power.

[Jeff Frigo]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Its second and third gear where you feel the power fade, first gear burnouts can be done in most manual cars, don't get me wrong my car hauls ass but ride in a 500 plus cube motor then you will feel power.

I totally agree. A car will always feel faster with more torque, especially at lower rpm's.

[PANAVIA]

Coyote crate engines propose their own set of issues. -- I think I figured out a contributing source of issue with the coyote in a crate / swap situation. (OK, - any install using the FRPP system ), .

== In addition, we have a possible issue with the external oil filter/cooler system as provided for use with *modern* engine systems.

First, FRPP Coyote V8 :

The FRPP wiring and computer kit that allows the installation of what is effectively a 2010 Mustang GT V8, actually disables the active cam timing feature. -- This is not only a crucial part of the engine management system, it is *really critical* during startup. –with no crank/cam retard , it then requires longer than normal “Crank times” to achieve startup and full oil flow/pressure. The idea being that since the engine takes longer to start, it spends more time at low revs, under low oil flow / pressure conditions.

Keep in mind,- while it is cranking , at low revs (under 400 RPM) the computer would also be double cycling the injectors to achieve startup. This has a side effect of effectively “fuel washing” the cylinders and also eventually diluting the oil, whilst having an overtly rich startup. -- How can you tell >? – guaranteed during a startup on a coyote crate engine powered vehicle, you will have a puff of smoke / fuel during eventual startup, signaling the rich mixture.

TEST: if you have a stock 2010 mustang GT, sitting next to a coyote crate engine , and both drivers turn the key at the same time ;

– the Stock 2010 GT will start first, and the crate engine powered car will start 2 seconds later –

Example ; 2010 GT stock –

2010 Mustang GT Start Up & Rev - YouTube

at about 20 seconds in , he starts it from dead cold – it takes about 1 second to start.

Coyote Crate ;

Superformance Cobra with Mustang's Coyote 5.0L V8 - YouTube

Autoblogs video of the SPF with the coyote, at about 15 seconds in,- it takes 2.5 seconds to start and has a puff of smoke at startup ( looks like un-burnt fuel vapor)

So every time the coyote starts, it is experiencing 2 to 3 x wear from the startup cycle and ends up diluting the oil.

Now let’s talk about oil filters - the 2010 GT and say a 1995 GT , -- 1995 was the last time the FL1A / WIX 51515 was regular equipment on a mustang GT, it was also the last year of the “old” 5.0L . ---so They have different oil filters with different specifications that effect engine operation and longevity, not to mention filtering stuff out of your oil.

AKA – there have been significant updates and changes to oil filters in the last 15-20 years.

Most people don’t know that there is a bypass valve inside an oil filter to allow oil to flow freely during low pressure situations. This bypass design is not meant for a “running” engine, it is for initial startup and initial lubrication during the crank cycle.

The 2010 GT uses a 22mm orifice filter (.897”) that flows 11-13GPM,- with a 16psi bypass valve. (oil bypasses filtration until 16PSI)

The 1995 GT uses a ¾”pipe fitting orifice for flow ,- (.750”= 18.35mm) flowing 7-9GPM, with a 8-11 psi bypass valve. ( having your oil go through the filter sooner, is not a good thing in this case.)

Do note, when you attach an oil cooler to any engine, with a remote filter setup it draws more fluid volume and energy from the system. In traditional Windsor setups we mandate a High Volume (MH68HV) pump as we usually lose 20-25% of the available oil pressure adding a remote oil cooler / filter system.

In the Coyote scenario with the remote filter adapter, and oil cooler components, we have a system that requires 20-25% more volume than stock, with a filter that is only able to flow 80% of the current *new* filter, which starts “filtering” at 50% of the activation pressure of the current design, and as I mentioned above ,- since the cam crank retard is disabled in the coyote, it spends more time cranking at low oil pressure thereby damaging itself.

Filter data ;

OLD FORD FILTER ;

Part Detail

NEW FORD FILTER ;

Part Detail


hope this helps. ---Steve

[fordracing65]

The VCT variable cam timing is where the coyote shines, without it its just a 5.0, the reason I prefer the DOHC cammer over the coyote was the cammer being all forged and an all out race motor as opposed to a street engine with vct, vct is great when it works, most grand am mustangs and all the ford gt still use the DOHC cammer over the coyote.