Your thoughts on this used Cobra

[xb-60]

Hi Flygirl,
I'm commenting from a long way away so my thoughts might be way off-beam and completely irrelevant.
...and with that over-rider, here they are...are you thinking of testing the water with this purchase, or is ownership of this particular car likely to be a long-term thing?
If the former, then consider how much you could sell the car for if you had to in the near future.
If the latter, then what about leaning on the dealer for things like some sort of extended warranty, considering the age of the car, and maybe fitment of some of the upgrades from the later cars, as well as negotiating on price. The asking price does seem high (I'm not yet a Cobra owner, but like you I've been 'lurking' around for some time), and looking at Cobra Country listings again, some of the cars listed there also seem quite highly priced. Bargains should be available in these somewhat 'challenged' economic times.
The mileage is what....3500miles? That's very low, and if everything else looks good.....do you feel good about this particular car? You have been asking all the right questions; how long have you been looking at this car, so what is your 'gut feeling' telling you?
Cheers!
Glen

[lovehamr]

After looking at "sold" values I'd have to conclude that this car is over priced by 5-10k for a small block car. Add in that UGLY (JMHO) injection system and that floats it solidly to 10k over for me.

[D-CEL]

It is interesting how the Backdraft dealer is chiming-in to say "It’s about $10k high in price"
Really? Says who? Maybe $10-15k high for a Backdraft? But then again he is in the business of selling a competing brand at a significantly lower price point, so it is in his best interest to under-value the competitor. With that said, I’m not sure how a biased opinion does the poster or the discussion any good.

Ultimately, it is worth what the new owner will pay and the seller will accept. It appears to be a clean, very low mileage, early SPF. no major leaks, EFI with a -6 braided stainless return style fuel system, MSD ignition, knock offs, Tremec trans, Alum centered 8.8 and the very important (if you live in the Socialist republic of California) SB-100 registration already completed.

Flygirl,
What is it worth to you? While $35k would seem to me to be a very good buy (for you) I would be surprised if the seller wasn’t a little…put off by that offer.
Id say $38-39k would be a fair starting point, with a top of $41-43k.(How bad do you want it?) Its not my money so its easy for me to throw it around! LOL.
I’m in Socal, Id be happy to help out, look at it, offer a non emotional opinion, etc. But it sounds like you have it covered.

Jason

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

It is interesting how the Backdraft dealer is chiming-in to say "It’s about $10k high in price"
Really? Says who? Maybe $10-15k high for a Backdraft? But then again he is in the business of selling a competing brand at a significantly lower price point, so it is in his best interest to under-value the competitor. With that said, I’m not sure how a biased opinion does the poster or the discussion any good.

Which is why I do not post on the Backdraft sponsored forums. Bad forum form, old chap.

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Randy, may I ask, why do you think that its being in storage so long is a bad thing, necessarily?

Not being argumentative (my gut tells me that I agree with you), but I'm curious about the rationale behind that thinking.

I know that piston engines don't necessarily do well when they're stored for years, rusty cylinders and such I'm told. And the brake fluid, having an affinity for water, can rust out the system from the inside. Is that what you're thinking?

Is there anything intrinsically inferior about these very early build cars?

The brakes seem inferior to the Wilwoods, and the rear end too, but how about the chassis? I fit fine so that's not an issue, but still...a 16 year old car for goodness sake.

I wish I could convince the owner that it's only worth in the 30s. I'm looking for a more inexpensive car that's already imperfect, so I can drive it regularly and not worry about the first stone chip or scratch.

I'm no expert here, but I can only imagine that internal gaskets may have dried out and may fail (if not now, then in the near future). You have already mentioned about internal rust that could develop from sitting in storage for long periods of time. You may also need to replace the tires (check the DOT date codes). I don't get the sense (or maybe I missed it) that this car was set up for storage - I don't recall all of the particulars, but there are steps to be taken to preserve a vehicle for long term storage.

IMHO, I see these cars are hand built vehicles. Yes, SPFs are built in an assembly line fashion, so you can assume a higher level of consistent quality from one build to the next, however at the end of the day, these are still hand built cars. And for me (IMHO), I would prefer a newer vehicle that does not have risks and lack of recent upgrades that an older (10+ year) has. In this economy, there are many SPF's on the market that are significantly newer, well maintained (which to me also means driven), and priced similar to this specific car.

The only time where I think an old SPF is interesting/desired is when one is looking at one of the original 25 or SPFs. I have a friend who has like #25 (or so, I may be wrong), but it does not look like an SPF, because it was so early in Hi Tech's production. It is a very unique SPF, however this one that you are looking at does not appear to have this same level of "vintage" uniqueness. Again, this is all my opinion only...

I just took a glance on Cobra Country, and I see a few significantly newer SPFs with asking pricing only a couple of $k more than the asking price for the one you are looking at.

IMHO, I think the SPF you are looking at is very low end of what is available on the market with the risks of age and storage. Your intent is to purchase a "driver" and there are plenty of "driver" (vs show vs project) cars on the market. I think this specific SPF is going to border on "project" car, and you may end up putting money into it that you could have used to buy a newer one that is a proven "driver". Personally, I prefer to buy used vehicles without stories - for a few more $k, you can buy a significantly better SPF. I would run from this SPF.

Good luck,
Randy...

[Randy Rosenberg]

BTW, this is the BAR sticker:

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

It is interesting how the Backdraft dealer is chiming-in to say "It’s about $10k high in price"
Really? Says who? Maybe $10-15k high for a Backdraft? But then again he is in the business of selling a competing brand at a significantly lower price point, so it is in his best interest to under-value the competitor. With that said, I’m not sure how a biased opinion does the poster or the discussion any good.

Ultimately, it is worth what the new owner will pay and the seller will accept. It appears to be a clean, very low mileage, early SPF. no major leaks, EFI with a -6 braided stainless return style fuel system, MSD ignition, knock offs, Tremec trans, Alum centered 8.8 and the very important (if you live in the Socialist republic of California) SB-100 registration already completed.

Flygirl,
What is it worth to you? While $35k would seem to me to be a very good buy (for you) I would be surprised if the seller wasn’t a little…put off by that offer.
Id say $38-39k would be a fair starting point, with a top of $41-43k.(How bad do you want it?) Its not my money so its easy for me to throw it around! LOL.
I’m in Socal, Id be happy to help out, look at it, offer a non emotional opinion, etc. But it sounds like you have it covered.

Jason

Read my posts again. An extension of this business is watching values and this season we began consigning cars and brokering cars (not just Backdrafts) because our production inventory was sold out through Sept. 1. So if you and Muck could wrap your heads around that... actually when a customer is weighing the 2 "brands" I often hear a comparison of a New BDR to a Used SPF when it comes to total cost. If the used SPFs hold higher it would help that situation to get a new car with warranty etc.

Better yet was the general opinion that the price is indeed 5-10k to high

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Which is why I do not post on the Backdraft sponsored forums. Bad forum form, old chap.

Sponsored forums??? It's a discussion, if you have experiential information to add to another forum ... go ahead

[SunDude]

Flygirl, I think you have many great SPFs to choose from at a $47K price point, with a wide selection of vehicle ages, drivetrains and colours.

[Flygirl]

You guys are great; I sure appreciate your help.

I'm right there with y'all. The more I think about it, the more I agree it's overpriced. The owner insists that it'll appreciate in value and so he's not super motivated to sell. I think he'd be insulted if I offered anything in the thirties, which is as high as I feel I should go.

Also, I don't think I posted the pic, but it was pretty clear that the rear main seal is weeping a bit of oil. Who knows how long it'll be until it makes its way to the clutch.

Does not appear the car was 'pickled' for long term storage.

And yeh, the engine runs well enough with the injection. But I agree, it's not the most attractive induction system I've ever seen [sigh]. Not to mention that no one knows who built the engine, or what their credentials were. We don't even know what's inside, assuming hydraulic lifters but whether they're roller or not...?

Will say it's been a great experience, first time I could really drive one on my own for an extended period of time, also first time I've been able to spend nearly an hour under one taking pics and looking closely at how it's built. That was a GREAT opportunity for me.

Thanks again. The search continues.

Originally Posted by xb-60

Hi Flygirl,
I'm commenting from a long way away so my thoughts might be way off-beam and completely irrelevant.
...and with that over-rider, here they are...are you thinking of testing the water with this purchase, or is ownership of this particular car likely to be a long-term thing?

The mileage is what....3500miles? That's very low, and if everything else looks good.....do you feel good about this particular car? You have been asking all the right questions; how long have you been looking at this car, so what is your 'gut feeling' telling you?
Cheers!
Glen

Hi Glen, I'm not really looking to profit from the car short term. I want something that I can drive and worship and hold onto. And, who knows, maybe sometime in the future, after I really get to know it, I might sell and buy another using the knowledge I'd acquired over years of ownership.

More and more, that's feeling like something with an engine bay more period correct, and with a big block. I didn't think it was such a big deal to me at first, but now I think it is, actually. And who knows, it might hold its value better too, should I ever sell.

Gut feeling on this car is indifferent. It's not my favorite of all color combos, not my favorite engine (said on the internet that was a 352 FE, which would have been nicer, but it isn't). It's nice, but at that price point I think I can do better.

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

I'm no expert here, but I can only imagine that internal gaskets may have dried out and may fail (if not now, then in the near future). You have already mentioned about internal rust that could develop from sitting in storage for long periods of time. You may also need to replace the tires (check the DOT date codes). I don't get the sense (or maybe I missed it) that this car was set up for storage - I don't recall all of the particulars, but there are steps to be taken to preserve a vehicle for long term storage.

I just took a glance on Cobra Country, and I see a few significantly newer SPFs with asking pricing only a couple of $k more than the asking price for the one you are looking at.

IMHO, I think the SPF you are looking at is very low end of what is available on the market with the risks of age and storage. Your intent is to purchase a "driver" and there are plenty of "driver" (vs show vs project) cars on the market. I think this specific SPF is going to border on "project" car, and you may end up putting money into it that you could have used to buy a newer one that is a proven "driver". Personally, I prefer to buy used vehicles without stories - for a few more $k, you can buy a significantly better SPF. I would run from this SPF.

Good luck,
Randy...

Sage advice. I agree with your observations. There's nothing here that makes it especially unique relative to other cars, or should command a premium.

Now I'm thinking, hmmm, those ERA cobras are sure nice, too...

The sickness has been in remission, but no longer.
:-)

[madmaxx]

You guys must not sleep much at night with all the nightmares with dried out gaskets, rusted pistons etc. His price is right on, plus SB100 adds value. I think I saw a totaled spf for 30's once. Extended warranty LMAO, brand new ones are plagued with problems, as are old. The ones that had to sell sold in 2009 and 2010, that when the deals were. That has to be the lowest price SPF I have seen with a sb100 in a long long time. I would offer 40K and go as high as 42500. If that to high look at a kit car (Factory Five or a replica like Backdraft

[madmaxx]

Please remember in the South and CA its Cobra time all year except middle of summer, in Ohio, Michigan, North East different story, prices are lower.

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You guys must not sleep much at night with all the nightmares with dried out gaskets, rusted pistons etc. His price is right on, plus SB100 adds value. I think I saw a totaled spf for 30's once. Extended warranty LMAO, brand new ones are plagued with problems, as are old. The ones that had to sell sold in 2009 and 2010, that when the deals were. That has to be the lowest price SPF I have seen with a sb100 in a long long time. I would offer 40K and go as high as 42500. If that to high look at a kit car (Factory Five or a replica like Backdraft

Ahh, an interesting perspective. It's funny, I go back and forth on this.

When I'm excited about the car, I think, yeh, that'd leave me a little extra cash for whatever, color scheme isn't my favorite but looks nice, runs very well and has no apparent mechanical issues, SB-100 compliant, it's right here near my house, I've driven it and all seems well.

And then when I'm skeptical I think, but it's so old, and there's some rust on one of the calipers (see pic) and it looks like it's weeping a bit of oil from the rear main seal (although I've seen where it's parked normally and no evidence of significant leakage), and it's not my favorite color combo, and what if...?

But I will say, that more and more I think about it, the more and more I want something with a big block. There's no rational reason, I think it'd handle better without all that weight up front, but logic takes me only so far with these cars.

Then again, that 392 Windsor sure pulled hard, and runs great, and sounds amazing...

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

But I will say, that more and more I think about it, the more and more I want something with a big block.

But of COURSE you do.

[Got the Bug]

SB100 is a non issue these days. There just isn't the demand that there used to be. Find the car you want, then take it through the SB 100 process. No real premium these days for SB100.

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

But of COURSE you do.

[gulp]

I need a cigarette.

And I don't even smoke.

[CBattaglia]

Beautiful! Strong arguement that you have THE perfect motor.

To that point, I believe that the motor in the car being discussed here brings down the value a bit. Since its a dealer, have them fix the little demons. Its mainly labor for him. I also think that putting 75 miles or so on it will be telling. Should uncover any lurking leaks. But, I agree when machines sit they also have a tendency to break.

[SunDude]

Originally Posted by SunDude

Flygirl, I think you have many great SPFs to choose from at a $47K price point, with a wide selection of vehicle ages, drivetrains and colours.

To prove my point, check out the selection of SPFs currently for sale on the SCOF website: CLICK HERE.

As at this writing there are six cars for sale ranging from SP00967 (MY 2001) to SP02086 (MY 2005).

Plenty more to choose from on Cobra Country.

As you seem nervous about SP00051's age, I figure you might want to see what else is available in the same asking price range.

[Bill Bess]

Check out the ERA for sale today on CC, looks pretty darn good, better car than a SPF in everyway.
My opinion only, Bill

[FUNFER2]

I agree, I wish we could link cobra country here.

This is one of the best SPF's I'e seen. Although I would prefer a FE motor, this Roush motor is very nice, the stacked injection would also be better.

The price is too high, like most SPF's for sale, so if the seller would work with you, it would be a very nice car to have.

Highlights-

Color
Quality build
Great motor & drive train
(510 horsepower and 489 lbs./ft. Of torque)
Original style gauges "reverse speedo ect"
Oil cooler
Rivits on hood
Shelby autograps (if that turns your crank, $100 +)
Chrome coolant tank
Clean/organized engine bay
Aluminum flywheel
Tremec 5-speed transmission
Wilwood disc brakes
Fully independent front & rear suspension
Bilstein coil-over shocks
Trigo wheels
Real leather seats.
Heater
Soft-top with side curtains
Tonneau cover
Car cover

I would be a happy buyer of this Cobra. The only change I would make (in the supplied photo) are the side pipes. Looks like the coating is either sprayed bad from the start or has burned off making them dull.


AD ON COBRA COUNTRY-
------------------------------

Superformance MkIII
SPO#1805, Indigo Blue/titanium stripes

Registered under the coveted "SB-100" (California Senate Bill 100)—that means
No smog certification, no California registration hassles for the life of the car!

UNDER THE HOOD
402R-061 Roush powerplant

Powerplant photo is hotlinked (same view, MUCH larger size).

This solidly-built Roush engine puts out 515 horsepower and 489 lbs./ft. Of torque. It's highly reliable and eminently streetable. Fully outfitted with the best of componentry, including MSD ignition ensemble, SS braided hoses, ANSA fittings, chromed overflow tank, twin electric "puller" cooling fans, much more.
It's highly reliable and eminently streetable.

GEARTRAIN, CHASSIS, BRAKES

Aluminum flywheel
Tremec 5-speed transmission
Wilwood disc brakes
Fully independent front & rear suspension
Bilstein coil-over shocks

COCKPIT

Above cockpit shot is hotlinked (alternate view, MUCH larger size).

Cockpit is authentically outfitted with:

Period-correct/original-correct Smiths gauges (with correct reverse-winding speedometer) and Lucas toggle switches
Moto-Lita hardwood-rimmed steering wheel
Premium German leather seats
Dual shoulder harnesses for driver & passenger
Rich wool carpeting
Heater/defros ter
Dual fresh air vents
Wind wings & tinted visors
Leather map pocket in each door
Chromed fire extinguisher in cockpit
Cobra floormats and locking glovebox
Custom car cover

Above: Carroll Shelby's personal autograph on the glovebox door... And it's
No doubt one of the best specimens of Carroll's autograph you're likely to encounter!

ROLLING STOCK


Trigo wheels shod with-brand new BF Goodrich with white letters—new rubber to be installed for the new owner (my cost for mounting & balancing included in sale price).


This rearview is hotlinked [alternate view (luggage compartment), much larger size].


YOU ALSO GET:

Original-style convertible soft-top with side curtains
Tonneau cover
Stainless steel quick-lifts
Silver-ceramic*coated sidepipes
Electrical (safety) kill switch


This blue beauty has always been kept in a climate-controlled garage, never raced or seen inclement weather, and has been maintained and serviced by the long-reigning Cobra expert on the West Coast—Mike McClusky. This is a drivin' machine Extraordinaire... You'll get no unpleasant surprises.


$52,900 obo

Contact (via email, due to my travel schedule):
Michel Stern
[Remarque: je peux converser avec vous en anglais et en français!]

Email: michel1223@gmail.com
Located in Los Angeles, California