Shopping Superformance, prices?

[03BeastCharmer]

Any idea if the cobras on Hillbrand or Cobra Country are selling for $75K+, or is it still possible to get a 1000+ serial number Superformance in the high $50's - low $60s?

[mrmustang]

Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain or lose by making this post, or any other in this particular thread. Think about that before attacking it because you are a SPF owner/dealer/broker.

Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer

Any idea if the cobras on Hillbrand or Cobra Country are selling for $75K+, or is it still possible to get a 1000+ serial number Superformance in the high $50's - low $60s?

They advertise them at those inflated prices all over the web, not many of them have sold for anything near those asking prices. Although, it really is a matter of numbers, just like the spammers that send out 1,000,000 spoofed emails a day telling people to "verify their accounts", all it takes is one to respond to make the scam work.

Most SPF's that I have seen marked as sold and pulled from the market are in the $42,000-$57,000 range. Are there exemptions to that rule, of course, but those are the truly exceptional cars at the top of their game. 427 Sideoiler powered, no small block, or 460 powered cars in that grouping, at least none that I have heard about.


Bill S.

[froggyman]

Points well taken. Having said that, and knowing the history of the Superformance brand, the high production quality and reliability of it as well, that most of the other brands cannot claim, supports the high prices. Sure, there are those that get rid of their SPF cars in a desperate attempt to regain their investment originally, those are the unfortunate facts of any brand. However, the premium brand that Superformance has evolved into, as well as being the ONLY ONE that can claim the true License by Carroll Shelby, is here and and one you cannot hide or ignore. That my friend has increased its perceived value that is supported by desirability and sales at higher prices.

The above in no way claims that there are not many other quality and exceptional replicas out there, I know, I have witnessed, experienced them and owned them. But the unique stature the Superformance Premium Brand has attained is not an imaginary and inflated fact. It is backed up by its sustained reliability and predictable desirability. Many thousands of them.

Can I get rid of my SPF car today for $50,000? Sure. Can you buy one for that or less? Sure, but am I going to let you have it for less than $70,0000 because you want to steal great premium quality? Absolutely not. You have to experience the brand, then decide if it is right $$$$ for you or not.

You can buy cheaper Cobra replicas for sure. But you just will not cheapen a premium brand image by criticizing its premium brand status because the prices are high. They are high because they are worth it, there is fundamental quality and production reasons for that. You have to make the choice of what you want to spend in any brand of replica. They may all look the same at 50 feet, sorry to say, they are not.

Good luck in your search, whatever makes you individually happy is what counts after all.

In answer to your beginning statement, and with all due respect, "I also have nothing to gain from this statement, just stating my perceived facts."

Just MHO.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain or lose by making this post, or any other in this particular thread. Think about that before attacking it because you are a SPF owner/dealer/broker.



They advertise them at those inflated prices all over the web, not many of them have sold for anything near those asking prices. Although, it really is a matter of numbers, just like the spammers that send out 1,000,000 spoofed emails a day telling people to "verify their accounts", all it takes is one to respond to make the scam work.

Most SPF's that I have seen marked as sold and pulled from the market are in the $42,000-$57,000 range. Are there exemptions to that rule, of course, but those are the truly exceptional cars at the top of their game. 427 Sideoiler powered, no small block, or 460 powered cars in that grouping, at least none that I have heard about.


Bill S.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by froggyman

In answer to your beginning statement, and with all due respect, "I also have nothing to gain from this statement, just stating my perceived facts."

While a lot of what you say may have some truth to it... I challenge your statement above. ^
You seemingly own at least one SPF, therefore have a vested interest, and a dog (or two) in this fight...

Just sayin'

[froggyman]

So what you are "just sayin" is that any negative remarks about any brand made here should just remain a remark without responses to it? Yes, I have nothing to gain from this, other brands are just as important as Superformance, the remarks made in the quoted thread were against Superformance specifically and not any other Cobra Replica brands that I can tell. I did not say that Superformance is better than any other brand because I own one. I stated that the perceived value and high prices are what they are because of reasons stated in my previous response.

This is the reason that, yes, folks, FEWER AND FEWER people are coming back to Club Cobra. A bad taste is what is left from infrequent visits.

Originally Posted by Dimis

While a lot of what you say may have some truth to it... I challenge your statement above. ^
You seemingly own at least one SPF, therefore have a vested interest, and a dog (or two) in this fight...

Just sayin'

[03BeastCharmer]

I hope I haven't unintentionally sturred something up with my question, I'm just in unknown territory, and trying to move up the learning curve.

Coming out of the BMW world, there were a lot more data points to understand the market, and knew what trade-in vs private seller vs dealer prices would be for a given type of car. Car forums and e-bay completed sells helped, just not a lot of data here on or ebay.

I know some of it will be clearer when I actually make an offer on a car, but I just don't want to wait someones time by lowballing someone who is expecting to get 100% of their list price. If $70K+ really is the market, I'll have to look at another manufactuer.

I'll just have to wait and see if a car I like comes up and see what I'm willing to offer, and they are willing to accept.

[froggyman]

03BeastCharmer,

You have not disrupted anything. You are doing your due diligence, and you are right in asking all those questions. The market is filled with a lot of very nice brands. Not all the same, nor same level of quality and price points. You have to make that decision on your own. However it would be wise to visit the events, check out the different brands up close and determine which appeals to you best and suits your price level.

If you are a BMW owner you may want to check out the Backdraft brand of replicas. They have a BMW based suspension that is awesome.

Juan

Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer

I hope I haven't unintentionally sturred something up with my question, I'm just in unknown territory, and trying to move up the learning curve.

Coming out of the BMW world, there were a lot more data points to understand the market, and knew what trade-in vs private seller vs dealer prices would be for a given type of car. Car forums and e-bay completed sells helped, just not a lot of data here on or ebay.

I know some of it will be clearer when I actually make an offer on a car, but I just don't want to wait someones time by lowballing someone who is expecting to get 100% of their list price. If $70K+ really is the market, I'll have to look at another manufactuer.

I'll just have to wait and see if a car I like comes up and see what I'm willing to offer, and they are willing to accept.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain or lose by making this post, or any other in this particular thread. Think about that before attacking it because you are a SPF owner/dealer/broker.



They advertise them at those inflated prices all over the web, not many of them have sold for anything near those asking prices. Although, it really is a matter of numbers, just like the spammers that send out 1,000,000 spoofed emails a day telling people to "verify their accounts", all it takes is one to respond to make the scam work.

Most SPF's that I have seen marked as sold and pulled from the market are in the $42,000-$57,000 range. Are there exemptions to that rule, of course, but those are the truly exceptional cars at the top of their game. 427 Sideoiler powered, no small block, or 460 powered cars in that grouping, at least none that I have heard about.


Bill S.

Where does Bill criticize what you refer to as the "premium brand" label of the Shelby-licensed SPF? His opinions and comments were directed about the inflated prices of dealers/brokers. Bill then offered his opinion of current pricing based upon his vast experience of buying and selling 50+ Cobras (total WAG) in his lifetime. Juan, take a chill pill. No one insulted the SPF brand.

And yes, Dimis is correct. You do have an obvious "vested interest" in protecting the SPF brand, just like I have a vested interest in the brand that I own. By saying "you have nothing to gain" appears disingenuous, at least to me.

And if anyone is leaving the CC site, then it's those folks whose posts are misread, misconstrued, misunderstood, misinterpreted, etc. by others and get attacked for seemingly no reason at all. At least to this reader.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Bill then offered his opinion of current pricing based upon his vast experience of buying and selling 50+ Cobras (total WAG) in his lifetime.

Forget about the WAG

Personally owned (as of today) 25 (SPF, Unique, ERA, Contemporary, FFR) and driven

Assisted the buyer and/or seller (paid or unpaid) 150+

As for people leaving this or any other site, it is more likely because their posts are not always agreed with. They couldn't handle not always being right, so they picked up their marbles and stormed out, usually with a "high drama rant", thus burning any bridges they had built in the first place. Sure, they will go back to the mailing lists, or the "members only" private forums and get patted on the back from those who drank the Koolaid, but in the back of their minds, they kick themselves in the behind for acting so poorly. If they do not, then perhaps they need to review their time here and ask themselves "what went wrong"

Personally, when I leave a particular forum/newsgroup, I just log out, and walk away quietly, no reason to make a high drama production out of it as I just might want to log back in at a future date, without any other drama than "where have you been". You just never know.




Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Forget about the WAG
Bill S.

Now, I'm being criticized for taking a WAG on how many Cobras Bill has sold.

I'm done. I'm outta here.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Now, I'm being criticized for taking a WAG on how many Cobras Bill has sold.

I'm done. I'm outta here.

I have to say that I think this particular site has more "thin skinned" folks than usual. On some of my professional (business related) sites, people are a lot meaner/tougher/nastier than they are here and you almost never see people pick up their ball and go home.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I have to say that I think this particular site has more "thin skinned" folks than usual. On some of my professional (business related) sites, people are a lot meaner/tougher/nastier than they are here and you almost never see people pick up their ball and go home.

And then there are CC members who we can't get to leave this site, say, like, for instance, NYG. What will it take for NYG to his Nissan Leaf and go away.

[Tim7139]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain or lose by making this post, or any other in this particular thread. Think about that before attacking it because you are a SPF owner/dealer/broker.



They advertise them at those inflated prices all over the web, not many of them have sold for anything near those asking prices. Although, it really is a matter of numbers, just like the spammers that send out 1,000,000 spoofed emails a day telling people to "verify their accounts", all it takes is one to respond to make the scam work.

Most SPF's that I have seen marked as sold and pulled from the market are in the $42,000-$57,000 range. Are there exemptions to that rule, of course, but those are the truly exceptional cars at the top of their game. 427 Sideoiler powered, no small block, or 460 powered cars in that grouping, at least none that I have heard about.


Bill S.

Can you kindly expand on this a bit? Since I've done a fair bit of recent price study over the last year I have a question relative to that price range.
Would it be fair to state that anything materially below 50k or so is usually tied to either some damage history, high usage/miles, or a rather poor choice for an engine? I supose there's always a few cars offered because of adverse personal situation.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

Can you kindly expand on this a bit? Since I've done a fair bit of recent price study over the last year I have a question relative to that price range.
Would it be fair to state that anything materially below 50k or so is usually tied to either some damage history, high usage/miles, or a rather poor choice for an engine? I supose there's always a few cars offered because of adverse personal situation.

As it is with every used car market (not just cobra replicas)

It falls in to three category's:

Those that want to sell
Those that have to sell
and
Those who are considering a sale "at the right price" and will advertise whatever they are considering selling at a price they decided arbitrarily (a certain close to donor build FFR listed continuously at $98K in the west comes to mind).

Then you have dealer/retail sellers who are in no rush to sell, but want to be able to sell the same type of vehicle over and over again at full retail value. Sometimes they get together with other dealers and start the artificial rise in asking prices (IE: price fixing), soon and by the trickle down effect, the asking pricing go up. However, not all dealers get away with this, several Ferrari dealers got caught in the late 80's and early 90's playing that game with the 308 (Magnum PI) Ferrari's. The dealers for the GT350R/GT500/Eleanor cars got caught up in the same thing, only they went as far as taking a car to a well known auction over and over again and selling it for 200K,300K,450K in an attempt to find suckers to purchase them. (they did find and screw many people out of their hard earned money). Comparing what a dealer asks for a car (one that sits on the market for 8-14+ months at an artificially high price) or two and saying "this is what my private party car should sell for" does not work. The mindset of what sold at auction vs what a private seller can get is also a comparison that does not work. What an importer and largest dealer advertises for, and what a private prty can actually sell their car for is not a good comparison either, as the importer/dealer wants to sell cars, and attempt to ad value for the "investment grade" of one brand over another. Again, while it appears at first to be a great strategy, it actually hurts the market, current owners who buy in to the practice of "don't advertise your car for less than XXXXXXX, if we all advertise higher, we will get higher prices for our cars", it hurts the new owners when they find out they were manipulated, and it eventually leads to a collapse of a specific market after a short time. Think of it as a sort of pyramid scheme of price fixing. Then you end up back where we started, with private sellers offering cars at real world prices, after wasting their time listening to those who stated "you are not asking enough, you'll bring the value of our cars down". These are the same owners who think the car is being sold too cheaply, who are afraid to purchase them and remarket them at higher prices with their own money, hence, back to where it all started, with the basic time and money equation, and whether it is a "I'm bored and want to sell" vs "I need the money for another toy/business deal/etc" mindset of a seller.

The above is a ramble, yes, I know, as I am multitasking, and coming back to this every couple of minutes. Sorry, but you should still get my drift.

Bill S.

[Tim7139]

That's interesting but thats not what I asked. Yours is a nice reflective on collector cars and I am very well versed on same. I was after more thoughts on my questions specifics since you mentioned a fairly broad range of prices. You offered thoughts on the lower end of that range and I'm simply asking for additional rational and/or data on that, because it seems somewhat contrary to recent data, but data I sourced I suspect might be less comprehensive and lacking lots of private party transactions.
There's always price qualifyers, nothing new here.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Tim7139

That's interesting but thats not what I asked. Yours is a nice reflective on collector cars and I am very well versed on same. I was after more thoughts on my questions specifics since you mentioned a fairly broad range of prices. You offered thoughts on the lower end of that range and I'm simply asking for additional rational and/or data on that, because it seems somewhat contrary to recent data, but data I sourced I suspect might be less comprehensive and lacking lots of private party transactions.
There's always price qualifiers, nothing new here.

Told you I was rambling, sorry I missed your original idea of an answer.

Want to sell vs have to sell (and every reason in between those two) is the main reason for some prices.

Various other factors are as follows:

Condition and presentation
Color choices (solid vs solid with stripes, black vs red, lime green vs hot pink (YES, HOT PINK), etc)
engine choices (347 stroker vs 385hp/351W, 460/425hp Ford crate engine, 390FE vs 427 sideoiler, etc)
Interior choices (some custom interior upgrades actually hurt the value, or odd colors)
Tire choices (racing slicks vs BFG's, etc)
Stock looking rims vs aftermarket (bolt on vs knock offs as well)
Black painted sidepipes vs powdercoated or jethot coated
Mileage on the build
Chassis # (late vs old)

Those are just the tip of the iceberg (so to speak), there are dozens of other factors that come in to play, especially when dealing with a buyer who is unsure of what he/she/they really want.

Hope this post helps a little further in to your understanding of how I come to the conclusions I've posted some of here.

Have a great day.

Bill S.

[Tim7139]

It does. I kind of assumed much of it, but helpful none the less, thanks.

[GTBill]

Good Read Bill.
You are missed up here in Snow Country !

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by GTBill

Good Read Bill.
You are missed up here in Snow Country !

Miss you guys too, but do not regret the southerly relocation. Come on down, lot's of great roads to drive down here.

Bill S.

[buddyg]

It really depends on what you want. I wanted 15' wheels, polished sidepipes, wood steering wheel, glove box and low miles and in excellent condition. I had been looking for awhile and when what I wanted came up on Cobra Country I pounced. I talked them down a little but it was worth every penny I paid.