Ordered a Superformance Cobra, trying to make some decisions.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

On a related matter - try to leave your self enough room for a carburetor phenolic insulator base gasket of some sort. Most of the true phenolic insulators are 1/2 inch or more in thickness but there are some other options that get down slightly less than 1/4 inch in nitrile gasket material that will help. The Cobra engine bay is pretty tight and gets warm and fuel perculation can be a very real issue.

Hey Dan, today's news for Patrick and the change to his carb's secondaries. All 13 of the warmest years on record have now occurred in the last 15 years. And fuel mixtures change constantly as well. But Patrick still thinks that K&N really does make a "seat of the pants" difference.

Scientists react to warmest year: 2014 underscores

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

you don't have to have your car perfect the day you get it. Ten years later and i'm still tweaking my light bulbs.:lol:

fify.

[Detroit Bill]

My son and I are going to visit Barry Rabotnick at Survival Motorsports tomorrow. That should be fun and interesting. It is about an hour away from home so not a big deal. Still planning a 482 FE but suddenly allowing the possibility of a 460 big block. More power for near half the price?

Not original but tons of reliable power "cheap". This is a way to knock several thousand off the car. Current thoughts are go with the FE.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Not original but tons of reliable power "cheap". This is a way to knock several thousand off the car. Current thoughts are go with the FE.

Yes, it's cheaper. It's better than a SBF. It's better than a non-Ford engine. But a lot of people would not buy your car with it in there.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yes, it's cheaper. It's better than a SBF. It's better than a non-Ford engine. But a lot of people would not buy your car with it in there.

I'm one of those fickle people.

I remember going to take a look at a used Kirkham that the seller had originally installed a 460 in. The seller was unable to sell his Kirkham with the 460, so he removed the 460, installed an FE, and then sold it. Also, at least in the Kirkham, one of the cross-members had to be "clearanced" to install the 460.

[cycleguy55]

There are obviously some Cobras which are more 'authentic' or 'truer' to the original cars than others. I'm not going to start listing brand names as that will likely kick off a discussion that has already taken place far too often, but it seems to me those which are more authentic have more to gain by using an FE or SBF than do those which are less authentic (e.g. West Coast, Kellison, Factory Five Mk3).

In my case, I'm quite happy with the warmed over 460 in my West Coast. OTOH, if it was a CSX, Kirkham or Superformance I'd probably be looking hard at an FE.

Just my $0.02. YMMV

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm one of those fickle people.

I remember going to take a look at a used Kirkham that the seller had originally installed a 460 in. The seller was unable to sell his Kirkham with the 460, so he removed the 460, installed an FE, and then sold it. Also, at least in the Kirkham, one of the cross-members had to be "clearanced" to install the 460.

I am also, as I was looking all small blocks and 460 based motors were passed over quickly. BUT I also skipped by a lot of iron FE's. Most happened to be built by Southern. I don't do things for resale, I do them for me but in this case I think it is for me. I like the look of the FE with the old school Chrome Pentroof valve covers. That's the look that floats my boat. If I was doing this for resale I would not do it! Hopefully I don't find the need to sell it anytime soon.

[patrickt]

How much cheaper is a 460 than an FE?

[Detroit Bill]

Based on the Keith Craft crate engines

Pond Block FE 482 600 hp 19,000
Production block 514 700 hp 12,000

Certainly a reason to pause. The BB may have height clearance problems I don't know to flow that much air I don't think they are using a dual plane manifold.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Based on the Keith Craft crate engines

Pond Block FE 482 600 hp 19,000
Production block 514 700 hp 12,000

Are your all-in costs for this car not going to be approaching $100k? If I was going to shave a few grand, I would find it somewhere else. And the HP difference is not important.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Are your all-in costs for this car not going to be approaching $100k? If I was going to shave a few grand, I would find it somewhere else. And the HP difference is not important.

That is a significant $ per HP difference.

There is no where else, skip the floor mats?

It is all good I have worked very hard for many years to be able to do what I want.

[patrickt]

I know you won't believe this, but there is no difference between 600 and 700 horsepower in these cars.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

Based on the Keith Craft crate engines

Pond Block FE 482 600 hp 19,000
Production block 514 700 hp 12,000

Certainly a reason to pause. The BB may have height clearance problems I don't know to flow that much air I don't think they are using a dual plane manifold.

A Pond aluminum or iron block?

And I wouldn't compare either of those Pond blocks, which are near exact duplicates of the original side-oiler blocks to a production 385 series block.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I know you won't believe this, but there is no difference between 600 and 700 horsepower in these cars.

If you specified equal HP engines there would be a significant $/HP difference.
The HP difference was not the point it was an easy example.

I understand the car will be over powered, planning on it. Has anyone ever called you the fun police? I have read you say 1,000 times anything over 400 hp is a waste or something like that. Yea we get it. I have never read one post where someone says it just hooks up in first and goes.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

A Pond aluminum or iron block?

And I wouldn't compare either of those Pond blocks, which are near exact duplicates of the original side-oiler blocks to a production 385 series block.

I believe the 512 is iron. I am not sure if there is a Pond "460" block?

[patrickt]

Then by all means put your 385 series engine in there and be done with it. It will make cheaper power, which is apparently what you want.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I know you won't believe this, but there is no difference between 600 and 700 horsepower in these cars.

This is the same guy who changed his air cleaner element to a K&N and can feel the "seat of the pants" difference? Oy vey.

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Then by all means put your 385 series engine in there and be done with it. It will make cheaper power, which is apparently what you want.

Hu? "Which is apparently all you want?"

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

I believe the 512 is iron. I am not sure if there is a Pond "460" block?

Pond doesn't make a 385 series 460 block. He makes aluminum and iron "427" FE blocks. I wouldn't make a comparison of a Pond 427 block to a production Ford 460 block.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

The BB may have height clearance problems I don't know to flow that much air I don't think they are using a dual plane manifold.

I have an Edelbrock Performer 460 and a Holley Street Avenger 770 CFM on mine, and there are clearance issues with the hood. Other than the size of the engine, I attribute that to 3 things: a) 21" oval air cleaner, sandwiched between the hood and the distributor; b) 1/2" carb spacer to raise the carb enough to use the air cleaner; and c) the upward tilt of both the engine and the carburetor. All of this was installed by the previous owner(s).

I have some solutions in mind for my car, but starting from scratch a BB should fit as long as: a) the air cleaner is short enough to not interfere with the distributor and narrow enough to fit in the hood scoop (e.g. 8" x 15" or 8" x 12" oval); b) the intake manifold is relatively low profile; c) a minimal insulating spacer or turkey pan is used; and d) the carb and air cleaner follow the line of the hood scoop (I'm adding a 5° wedge spacer to tilt mine down 2°, rather than up 3° as it is now).