Oil Change

[boblyon1]

Well, its time for an oil change for my Windsor stroker. My prior mechanic always used Delo but others have different advice. Would appreciate some suggestions from the forum, Thanks

[Mark IV]

What engine and who built it? What are the bearing clearances? That is where to start. And "diesel" oil is not for engines that are revved high, they do not contain large amounts of anti-foam additive so if you are running to 6K a lot you may be aerating your oil.

[novasscnc]

I have an all aluminum stroker I use 15/50 Amsoil synthetic

[spdbrake]

From your mechanics recommendation it appears you have a flat tappet cam in your engine and needs an oil that has Zinc and Phosphorus (ZPPD) additive.

As Mark IV wrote the Delo oil does have the additive but needs an Anti-foaming agent. Delo 400 MGX 10-40 with ISOSYN does have the Anti-foaming additive.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/P...&docFormat=PDF

I use Valvoline VR1 10-30 racing oil (conventional) with ZPPD even though I have a solid roller cam. (I like their oil).

If you need more info I'd just do a Google search as this site, and every automotive forum is littered with "Dead Horse" threads on oil recommendations.

[cycleguy55]

Interesting read here, albeit very long. The net of this is that he basically dismisses as myth the requirement for ZDDP (a.k.a. zinc) that many strongly believe in for flat tappet / lifter engines, and recommends certain types of high quality 5W30 synthetic pretty much universally.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

The weight / viscosity of your oil s/b based upon the clearances in the engine, as indicated by pressures you're seeing. Standard guidance for many has been 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM at operating temperature, so 60 PSI @ 6,000 RPM. Running heavier / thicker oil than that not only requires more power to pump, but may also result in insufficient lubrication to tight clearances - particularly when cold (yes, even with multi-viscosity oils).

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Interesting read here, albeit very long. The net of this is that he basically dismisses as myth the requirement for ZDDP (a.k.a. zinc) that many strongly believe in for flat tappet / lifter engines, and recommends certain types of high quality 5W30 synthetic pretty much universally.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

The weight / viscosity of your oil s/b based upon the clearances in the engine, as indicated by pressures you're seeing. Standard guidance for many has been 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM at operating temperature, so 60 PSI @ 6,000 RPM. Running heavier / thicker oil than that not only requires more power to pump, but may also result in insufficient lubrication to tight clearances - particularly when cold (yes, even with multi-viscosity oils).

A guy in our club is a retired oil engineer from one of the big US refineries. A good part of his career was spent developing and providing oil for race cars, sponsored and unsponsored. When I showed him the 540Ratblog (after being pretty impressed myself), he ripped the methodology to shreds. The author is making a lot of unfounded statements that he backs up with pseudo science and testing.

The recommended oil from the guy with experience? Delo diesel when it used to have 1200ppm zinc, now Delo diesel with ZDDP additive. Based on that I'm running Rotella 15W40 as it still has 1200 ppm ZDDP in my flat hydraulic tappet motor.

[sea2jet]

10 psi at idle seems very low.

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

The weight / viscosity of your oil s/b based upon the clearances in the engine, as indicated by pressures you're seeing. Standard guidance for many has been 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM at operating temperature, so 60 PSI @ 6,000 RPM. Running heavier / thicker oil than that not only requires more power to pump, but may also result in insufficient lubrication to tight clearances - particularly when cold (yes, even with multi-viscosity oils).

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by sea2jet

10 psi at idle seems very low.

Actually, it's not -- depending on what your idle is, of course. Let's say you're idling down at 700 RPM with a hot idle at 10 psi in a brand spankin' new stroker FE, say a SCAT with the Chevy journals, and clearances approaching .003", and a nice HV oil pump. 10psi is nothing to even blink at, provided the pressure comes up right off idle. The original 427FE didn't even flicker the light until 6psi - and the service bulletin's recommendation for when that happened was to just raise the customer's idle a bit. The need for a higher psi at hot idle is all in your head.

[spdbrake]

This Melling article is a good read and help diagnose if you think you have a problem or not.

https://www.melling.com/aftermarket-...u-k/technical/

[patrickt]

And speaking of Chevrolet, what do you think the installation guide from Chevrolet lists as the minimum oil pressure at idle (1000 RPM) for a nice, new 454 HO crate engine? Answer: 6 psi.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...e-12568774.pdf

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by patrickt

And speaking of Chevrolet, what do you think the installation guide from Chevrolet lists as the minimum oil pressure at idle (1000 RPM) for a nice, new 454 HO crate engine? Answer: 6 psi.

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...e-12568774.pdf

I also note the recommendation for 5W30 non-synthetic. No mention of ZDDP as that's a roller cam engine.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Actually, it's not -- depending on what your idle is, of course. Let's say you're idling down at 700 RPM with a hot idle at 10 psi in a brand spankin' new stroker FE, say a SCAT with the Chevy journals, and clearances approaching .003", and a nice HV oil pump. 10psi is nothing to even blink at, provided the pressure comes up right off idle. The original 427FE didn't even flicker the light until 6psi - and the service bulletin's recommendation for when that happened was to just raise the customer's idle a bit. The need for a higher psi at hot idle is all in your head.

I have to agree with Patric here, My FE in my ERA car (454) ran at 10psi all day long at hot idle, as soon as I touched the peddle it jumped up...it has been this way for may years, no issues

[boblyon1]

My 351W stroker was originally set up by Southern Automotive, but rebuilt after the distributor gear tore up my cam. Also, should mention I have an Accusump (piston style oil accumulator), You guys have given me a lot of information and I appreciate it. Think I'll continue with Delo with the ZDDP additive unless someone sees an issue with it. Thanks everyone.

[patrickt]

No issues at all. If you want to reduce your theoretical wear curve shoot for a ZDDP value of greater than .12 as a percentage of weight. Try and keep your number below .19 as there tends to be a slight uptick in wear with the Alkyl flavor of ZDDP starting around that point. The Aryl flavor starts an uptick pretty quickly after reaching the .12 value, and you'll sometimes see a reference to that misquoted in some of the engine forums that don't distinguish the two. I think almost all the ZDDP supplements are of the Alkyl variety. I know GM EOS is (or was back twelve years ago when I bought a couple of cases, they changed their formula though shortly thereafter). I still put a bottle of that in with my Brad Penn and my numbers come back around .17 -- remember, your ZDDP gets used up, but if you don't have a solid flat tappet cam it doesn't really matter much anyway.

[hauss]

I use 15/40 delo in my 2001 powerstroke, with oil driven injectors . The reason for this is 15/40 delo does have anti foam additives . All I can tell you for sure is when I change the oil, it acts like I just gave it a tune up.I use it in my 427 stroker to and see 6500 rpm often. I change it every two months or, 2000 miles, sometimes sooner. Never had a lubrication problem. Chevron uses high grade base stocks in their diesel oil ,it is good stuff.

[hauss]

The new delo has moly and boron. No or little zddp. Government mandated to protect catalytic converters for all new oils.

[spdbrake]

Hauss has a point on the On-road versions of Delo

Delo 400 15-40 SDE has dropped zinc altogether.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/P...&docFormat=PDF

Delo 400 15-40 LE (off-road) is still good on its levels of ZPPD.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/P...&docFormat=PDF

Delo 400 XLE, XLP, XSP, ZFA, NG, levels are too low.
They can all be looked up here:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/P...ctPDSLink=true

Delo 400 SAE (single wgt) are ok in ZPPD levels at 30, 40, 50 wgt.
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/P...&docFormat=PDF

[bobcowan]

I'm almost afraid to get involved in an oil thread. But, here goes:

Don't assume you have a flat tappet cam just because your mechanic used Delo oil. Lots of people used diesel oils because they had more zinc and ZDDP for a while. As said above, they no longer do.

Contact the last shop that rebuilt your engine and ask them specifically what cam is in there.

You should also ask them specifically what oil pump is in there. There's no reason to install a high pressure pump in a Windsor motor. Sometimes, though, a high volume pump is needed. Particularly if you have external oil system components.

Hot idle pressure for a Windsor engine is generally about 25psi or so. The factory specs are rather vague. The pressure relief valve is usually set to open at about 60psi. Comparing factory specs of a FE motor to a Windsor motor is kind of pointless.

Using a straight weight motor oil these days is really not a good idea. There are huge advantages to the multi-weights, and you should (IMO) take advantage of them.

[hauss]

I would say Delo 15/40, change it often and it will provide all the protection you need. Costco has sales on it every so often or you can get it at Walmart .

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by hauss

I would say Delo 15/40, change it often and it will provide all the protection you need.

That might not be the best advice for a Windsor engine.

At 0*C, a 15w-50 oil has a viscosity of 1328
At 0*C, a 0w-30 oil has a viscosity of 475.

During a cold start, I would certainly want the lower viscosity. Get that oil up and moving as quickly as possible.

As for a 50 weight oil, a well built Windsor just doesn't need it. It should easily be able to maintain proper oil pressure with a 30 weight. The viscosity difference at 100*C is about 80%. It takes energy to move that extra thick oil around.