Sheared off lower ball joint

[Kenm4187]

Thanks for all your input. A metalurgist looked at the pictures and it looks like it was over hardened and became brittle. A problem from the supplier. I was sent a picture from a car that was in a wreck and it was bent badly but not broken. It seems to be one in a ?????? I don't have that kind of luck when it comes to Lotto.

Ken M 2560

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Those parts are made in very large batches. If that ball joint was over stressed ('stress relief', a heat treat term) than many more were treated the same...where are these parts. They may never fail, but they still may be defective.

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by Kenm4187

Thanks for all your input. A metalurgist looked at the pictures and it looks like it was over hardened and became brittle. A problem from the supplier. I was sent a picture from a car that was in a wreck and it was bent badly but not broken. It seems to be one in a ?????? I don't have that kind of luck when it comes to Lotto.

Ken M 2560

Looks like you got your answer so I will not pursue it any further.

[D-CEL]

Ken,

Like everybody here, I’m sorry for your failure, and happy that you were not hurt. I am a VP at a destructive testing laboratory in SoCal. While it is interesting to guess at the cause of the failure, it cannot be determined by looking at photographs. And to suggest that and entire lot of parts is suspect is unfair. Investigate: yes, accuse, no.
With that said, I would be happy to perform a failure analysis on the suspect parts, free of charge. If you are interested, email me and we will set it up.

Let’s hold judgment and comment until we have a clearer picture on what has happened.

Jason
jasonw@metalstec.com

[emberglo66]

Thank you!!!! D-CELL Your offer to review the possible product failure is extremely generous, I hope Kenm4187 takes advantage of your offer

[Kenm4187]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Ken,

Like everybody here, I’m sorry for your failure, and happy that you were not hurt. I am a VP at a destructive testing laboratory in SoCal. While it is interesting to guess at the cause of the failure, it cannot be determined by looking at photographs. And to suggest that and entire lot of parts is suspect is unfair. Investigate: yes, accuse, no.
With that said, I would be happy to perform a failure analysis on the suspect parts, free of charge. If you are interested, email me and we will set it up.

Let’s hold judgment and comment until we have a clearer picture on what has happened.

Jason
jasonw@metalstec.com

Jason,

My intent is to find out what happened. I do agree it is harder to determine what happened just from pictures.

First I wanted to find out if this happened to anyone else or if was just an isolated issue. From the info I have gotten back it seems very rare.

Second, I never suggested that the whole batch was bad or this was a wide scale issue. Those comments were made by others. I just did not want to see this happen to anyone else.

As soon as I know I don't need to hold on to the part any longer. I would like to take you up on your offer to help determine what happened.

My car is just over a month out of warranty and I am not sure what will happen with the insurance company as I was auto-crossing. If it is not needed by one of them I will send it to you. I do want to thank you for your offer, it was very nice of you. I am sure everyone would like to know the cause.


Thanks,

Kenm2560

[D-CEL]

Ken,

I apologize for not being clearer, as those comments did not come from you.
Just shoot me an email when you are ready and I will get to it.

Jason

[Bartruff1]

Investigating a "clicking noise" in the left front, my mech found the lower left ball joint would bind and then pop under loading....noise there since car was new, May 22nd. To his credit, Lance has a replacement in the mail.

[Kenm4187]

Glad to hear you found it before something may have happened. I wish mine had made some noise or gave me some warning.

Kenm2560

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Kenm4187

Glad to hear you found it before something may have happened. I wish mine had made some noise or gave me some warning.

Kenm2560

We didn't find the problem till the 4th try. The noise was annoying, so I finally told the mechanic to tighten every fricking bolt on the undercarriage. He finally hear it on a hard left turn and found it by bouncing the car useing the sway bar when it was on a lift....very lucky ...

[madmaxx]

Did the mechanic find the ball joint was never lubricated? Was it about to fail?

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Did the mechanic find the ball joint was never lubricated? Was it about to fail?

Don't have a clue Patrick, I just put gas in and out of them. I suspect SP will take a close look at it when we send it back. It couldn't be good.

[madmaxx]

My plan is as follows:
Try not to drink until after 7:00pm tonight.
Between 5:00 pm and 7:00 pm I am going to put the car on jack stands. Take off front wheels, place board on floor jack, place floor jack under brake rotor, apply pressure to brake rotor, monitor ball joint movement, if any movement ball joint is defective, drink immediately and call SPF, if no movement then ensure ball joint is greased. If case two occurs which I suspect it will I begin drinking immediately.

So either way my plans are fixed for tonight, LOL!!!

[madmaxx]

Well, I went over every nut and bolt and every single one was so tight I could not budge as far as the chassis. I found the 4 bolts holding the transmission to bell housing not loose but I could turn them.

As far as the tie rod ends they were greased, as far as the ball joints in my opinion the only grease was assembly grease, in other words noyone ever greased the joints via the zerk fittings. I pumped alot of grease in each one, they way I know they had not be greased was one of the boots could be pulled back a little and all I saw was a residue, not be an expert I have no idea if this would last the life of the joint but with grease costing $4.00 tube and the effort of drilling and tapping zerk fitting seams pretty ignorant not to grease them.

I checked my passenger side for movement and found none, only about 100 degrees to day so I will check the drive side tomorrow.

In summary grease your ball joints ASAP!!!!

[Got the Bug]

MadMax,

Good point. I had the same experience regarding the grease fittings on my SPF. The first time I changed my oil, I took a look at the rubber around the ball joints and they looked deflated. I pumped a bunch of grease into those fittings. I though it was just an isolated event and someone had just overlooked it.

You posted at 7:36 pm, so I trust you had a cool beverage in hand!

[madmaxx]

Not yet on the beverage, but I did check the driver side and found the same the ball joints had about the same amount of lubricant as a nun' s party box on Good Friday. Yea there was a couple of drops but not enough to brag about.

Regardless of the ball joints being lube or not they should NEVER,EVER FAIL. True the ball would wear to the point where the ball popped out of the socket/housing in about 50K miles but the stud should never ever break. So we have a real mystery hear. I did see USA stamped on mine which made me feel better than Made in China. It will be interesting to hear what the failure analysis finds.

Either way no excuse for SPF not greasing the ball joints. If they are diligent enough to mark every single nut, bolt with paint to show they were tightened then they must be miscommunicating with their supplier. SPF thinks the supplier is greasing and the supplier must think SPF is greasing.

[VintageUpgrades]

I have never encountered a SPF roller to have grease in the ball joints or tie rods. Greasing these points is just another check box on our list when doing the install.

[Kenm4187]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Not yet on the beverage, but I did check the driver side and found the same the ball joints had about the same amount of lubricant as a nun' s party box on Good Friday. Yea there was a couple of drops but not enough to brag about.

Regardless of the ball joints being lube or not they should NEVER,EVER FAIL. True the ball would wear to the point where the ball popped out of the socket/housing in about 50K miles but the stud should never ever break. So we have a real mystery hear. I did see USA stamped on mine which made me feel better than Made in China. It will be interesting to hear what the failure analysis finds.

Either way no excuse for SPF not greasing the ball joints. If they are diligent enough to mark every single nut, bolt with paint to show they were tightened then they must be miscommunicating with their supplier. SPF thinks the supplier is greasing and the supplier must think SPF is greasing.

My ball joint was lubed when it sheared off, only about 1420 miles on the car. I agree it should not have sheared off. I got the new ball joints installed today and used the old spindle (just to get it out of the trailer) until my new parts arrive. When I got it out of the trailer I found even more damage. When the wheel came off it hit the side pipe and pushed it back. The pipe is in about 2" by the rear tire. It looks like the exhaust manifold may be bent also, I can see an impact point in the heat shield behind it, very hard to tell. It just keeps getting better. Looks ok at the head.

Kenm2560

[madmaxx]

Kenm2560,

I assume the failure is being analysed? What in the world could have caused this outside of a manufacturing defect. I assume you are replacing all 4.

[Kenm4187]

Yes, all four ball joints are being replaced, still waiting for two of them. The ball joint will be analysed. I don't know what else could have caused this failure.