Side Pipes

[Nantucket427]

I am replacing the mufflers in my stock Superformance side pipes. The flange between the side pipes and headers concerns me. After removing the eight bolts with some luck, there was no gasket in the flang. It would seem that there should be or at least some high temp silicone but there was none??Should somthing be there?
The bolts are very hard to get to with the heat shields in place is there some type of bolt that with hold itself while you get the nut on???
Anyone with some knowledge about this please reply.

[thudmaster]

The header to sidepipe should have gaskets. Two people and deep sockets with extentions can make short work of the eight bolts. I used locknuts on them. (no plastic, the ones with dimples)

Hope that helps.................

[scootter]

Ed is right. There should be a gasket. Once you put the new gaskets in, you should check once in a while to make sure the bolts are tight. It can be a bit of a challenge, but I have done mine a couple of times by myself. Only use the stainless steel bolts, nuts and washers.
Scott

[Blas]

I don't believe the gaskets are always installed...

From my notes:
*
The best is Ultra Copper, good to 700f, then High Temp Red, good to 650f and finally Ultra Black good to 625f. I Any will work on a W or 385, I generally use the Copper on an FE just because the water jackets set back form the flange, so an FE flange sees a little higher temp.
*
There is a new product from Loctite called Gasket eliminator and it has a temp value of 880 F.
*
Install headers sans gaskets using Ultra High Temp Red Permatex. Put it on the header flange (thick but not overly so) and allow it to cure a few minutes and then install the headers with the bolts finger tight, after an hour or so I torque the bolts.
*

[Jim Kellogg]

From my experience, most installers use the gaskets. A few use different gasket eliminator proucts as mentioned by Blas.

What mufflers are you going to use? Who is doing them for you?
I will have to replace mine this year or next, and am looking at different options....

Jim Kellogg
Breesport, NY

[Blas]

I've been concerned with the small area between the pipes as they pass thru the flange. I seen a few that have blown out between pipes allowing exhaust gasses to pass between them long before the collector area...Some people use a copper gasket, and some a sandwich of materials...

[ken swart]

I got stainless bolts(5/16-18 x 1.25 S/S ) , washers, and locking nuts (part # 70797, says S/S TOPLOCK 5/16-18 on the bag) at FASTENAL.
I just hung my pipes the 2nd time, and did it myself. I had the car on the floor to start, taped around the hole in the fender, laid rags in the hole, and used wood blocks to support the pipes. Put a couple of the easy to reach bolts in the header flange, put on the hitemp sealant( this on advice from Ward at SnakePower, he throws out the gaskets), and got the pipes in place and secure.
Then I put the front end up on stands so I could get to the harder to reach bolts by putting a socket on the bolts and using 24 inches of extension to reach through the hole. I wrapped the extension and socket with electrical tape to protect the pipes+paint.
You'll save alot of reaching and straining if you get a helper to lay under the car, I was sore for a while.

[mickmate]

Hey John leaks only occur where the exhaust system generates enough back pressure. Drainpipes that take baseballs don't fall into that category

[RonNichols]

I put together a couple sets of side pipes this last spring and tested them on the local dyno. The first set was a 3" x 22" Classic Chambered with a 7 degree transition from SPD Exhaust. I made the transition just slip inside the factory SPF collector such that when welded, looked like a standard SPF side pipe and it funneled the exhaust into the muffler from the 3.5" collector to the 3" bore smoothly. I ended up with an extra 40 ft-lbs of torque and 31 hp over the factory set up on a Mustang dyno. But it was the whole area between the new curve and the old curve that made it a completely different car performance wise. Beyond 2100 rpms, it just left the factory muffler in the dust.

Figuring bigger was better, and having an extra partial set of side pipes to play with, I put together a set with a Megs venturi collector and a Howe 3.5" racing muffler. I made more noise but I actually lost 7hp and 11 ft-lbs of torque over the 3" bore mufflers. These tests were done a month apart from one another so direct comparison I guess can't be done. I would like to put together a set with the Megs venturi collector and a Classic Chambered 3" bore muffler to see if I get some power back and trim some dB's.

I love the sound of the 3.5" setup though, and the Megs collector to me looks great and has a racey look to it. I may just stop here and send my welding fixture I made to another SPF buddy of mine to play with. All in all, it was a fun experiment and I learned alot.

Hope this helps.

R

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by mickmate

Hey John leaks only occur where the exhaust system generates enough back pressure. Drainpipes that take baseballs don't fall into that category

I know something on that subject...



-Dean #747

[Blas]

Now why would you store your baseballs in your sidepipes? Must be a California thing...

[Nantucket427]

I did the same thing that you did, what 5 years ago. I still have the thread saved to my PC. The mufflers 22" X 3.5" outside, 3" inside with the thermal mat, were $208.00 each from SS, Mickmate a poster here on Cobra Club did the welding for me and they are at the Jet Coater right now. Unlike you, I am going to leave the baseballs out of the pipes to get the flow numbers up.

[imagine2frolic]

Probably a mystery Bonds ball??????????

[mickmate]

Hey Dean, they look the same as the mufflers I just put on Johns sidepipes. Where did they come from again? Interesting comparison shots looking down the old and new side by side. The mufflers that were on there were 2" bore with a 3/4" slot across them.

http://www.actoncustom.com

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by mickmate

Hey Dean, they look the same as the mufflers I just put on Johns sidepipes. Where did they come from again? Interesting comparison shots looking down the old and new side by side. The mufflers that were on there were 2" bore with a 3/4" slot across them.

http://www.actoncustom.com

Mick, they were from SS (formerly of Sebastian, FL). I'd personally go 2.5" bore the next time, as the 3" is quite loud and (I believe) too much flow for the Victor Jr. SB heads and factory SPF headers that are on the car presently. But above 3,000rpm they sound terrific. You will also notice there isn't much of a transition from the inner weld to the outer "wrap" or shell...that creates a really annoying rattle/cracking sound (inversion) when easing off the gas. Very noticable (and annoying) as you approach a stoplight.

I thought it would be cool to show people just how large a 3" I.D. pipe was by rolling a baseball through one. Made for a great pic.

-Dean

[mickmate]

Thanks Dean good info. I noticed they were stainless and had to be TIG welded back together with stainless wire. They had a little more length than the original mufflers which worked out well to have something to cut out and replace. We'll find out soon how they work on Johns FE, should be interesting.

[greg schroeder]

My car was delivered with leaking header to side pipe area. When I first pulled my side pipes I thought it was funny that the mating surfaces had weld build up to cause high spots. I ground the surfaces completely flat and used new gaskets. You can buy them from the Olthoffs or Hilbank at a reasonable price. To remove the bolts you can take the correct size wrench and cut the handle short. Put it on the back side toward the engine. When you twist the bolt with the other wrench the cut handle wrench turns to brace itself against the pipe. Often the bolts break off. Use new bolts and nuts always. The best bolts I've found for the job are grade 8 bolts from the hardware store. I've tried quite a few others though.

When I first pulled my headers my thought was it's funny that they cover 1/3 inch of each exhaust port. I got different headers.

I picked up different side pipes too.

[cdog]

I've used 7 bolts for 20K, no problems, with stock gaskets. The top bolt is too tricky to do everytime.

Also, at one point all but two of my bolts had fallen out and I didn't know it. What tipped me off (finally) was popping on deceleration.

So, with only two it will leak. More than 4 and I think you are OK.

[Flyin_Freddie]

I've had #770 since October 2000...and NEVER had a header or flange bolt/nut come loose enough to lose one. But...I've had to tightened them up several times before I hit on a solution.

I ended up using all stainless bolts, nuts, and lock washers. Using a 3/8" drive ratchet with extensions and deepwall sockets, along with a box end wrench for the bolt head, installation, removal and maintenance is really easy...no problems at all reaching any of the six fasteners. All the taping, wrapping, and otherwise protecting the body and pipes is really overkill and typical of a new owner, but no problem...we all understand your concerns and precautions. But basically, you're taking waaay, waaaaaay more pains than you need to...the paint and ceramic coatings are much more durable than you may think. Trust me when I say you'll pick up waaaay more nicks and scratches in one week of driving than you'll ever incur while installing your side pipes...!!!

After installation and initial run in, while the headers, pipes, flanges and bolts are still good and hot...revisit each one and tighten them up again. You'll find that after heating them up, you'll be able to get as much as a full turn on each fastener...! The heat obviously makes them expand quite a bit...and this is what causes them to get loose. Tightening them up while hot insures they stay tight when they heat up again. I don't need to tell you to be careful while they're hot...or you'll burn the Bejeezus outta your hand, arm, and anythng else that comes in contact with the hot surfaces...ask me how I know this...!!!

Also, at least once a year, just after a hard drive, again while they're still hot...go 'round and tighten them all up again, or at least try to. The key is re-tightening them while they are extremely hot - just after a drive.

This procedure has worked well for me for the past 8 years...hope it helps you out.

[RonNichols]

I've had my side pipes off quite a few times over the past year. I used to use stainless fasteners until recently. It seems that I have run into shoddy fasteners that once torqued, would seize, and then I simply just unscrewed them into two broken pieces. The box had an origin sticker that said "made in China" so I just figured I would change. I have since replaced the fasteners with grade 8 bolts with a serated flanged nut seated onto washers on both sides of the flange. After several months of heat cycling, its still tight.

R