Spicer 1410 half shafts on Amazon

[ScratchBuilder]

Found a good deal on Amazon for 1410 series Spicer half shafts for scratchbuild number 2, the part numbers are:

Flange yoke: Spicer 3-2-159
U joint: spicer 5-160x
Yoke shaft: spicer 3-82-268x
Slip yoke: spicer 3-3-118kx



My new build isn't at a point where I can check these parts so they may not be right.

SB

[David Kirkham]

Email me I'm the morning and I'll let you know if the numbers are right.

David

[MAStuart]

David could you post your findings to this thread. I and I think others would like to know to.

Mark

[David Kirkham]

yoke shaft, male older version, longer version SD3-82-268X
yoke shaft, male later version SD3-82-58X
sleeve yoke, female SD3-3-118KX
flange yoke SD3-2-159
u-joint SU5-160X

David

[David Kirkham]

"male older version vs. male later version"

Whenever parts are updated we keep the old part numbers--just in case. I would keep both as well. I am not sure which ones are in use now as we use CV's now and make our own 1/2 shafts.

David

[MAStuart]

Thank You David for the info! Were the half shafts the same for leaf sprung and coil sprung cars the same? Could you comment on the front and rear knock off hubs on the original cars? Were they Forging or ? And that material were they made of? Same question on the front and rear uprights. Some of us have had limited access to original cars.

Thanks again Mark

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by MAStuart

Thank You David for the info! Were the half shafts the same for leaf sprung and coil sprung cars the same? Could you comment on the front and rear knock off hubs on the original cars? Were they Forging or ? And that material were they made of? Same question on the front and rear uprights. Some of us have had limited access to original cars.



Thanks again Mark

1/2 Shafts--The small blocks and the first 100 or so of the 427's used a smaller u-joint. I think they used the 1350, but I would have to check. I can do that tomorrow. I'll have to brush up on my Polish to read the drawings

Knock offs--forged aluminum. Probably something like 6061 T-6.

Front hub--forged from a minimally alloyed steel--probably 1040.

Rear hubs--forged from EN40B steel. Similar to 4340. Fabulous alloy for strength, but horrible corrosion resistance.

Front upright--forged steel. Probably a steel with minimal alloying. We make them from something like 5140.

Rear upright--cast steel.

David

[1985 CCX]

David.
Great response. !
I thank you too.

[LMH]

Me too... Thank you!
Larry

[MAStuart]

Thanks again David. You know if you give them a little they will want more. So could you tell me and others were the drive hubs forged then heat treated and then machined. Or forged ,machined then heat treated and then ground to final dimensions.

I am scratch building and would like to machine my own hubs. Would 4140 pre hardened be a usable material to machine these parts from a solid chunk of shaft? I might be able to buy these cheaper than machining these myself but sometimes I get a lot of satisfaction out of making things.

Mark

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by MAStuart

Thanks again David. You know if you give them a little they will want more. So could you tell me and others were the drive hubs forged then heat treated and then machined. Or forged ,machined then heat treated and then ground to final dimensions.

I am scratch building and would like to machine my own hubs. Would 4140 pre hardened be a usable material to machine these parts from a solid chunk of shaft? I might be able to buy these cheaper than machining these myself but sometimes I get a lot of satisfaction out of making things.

Mark

This is rather subjective on my part, but it is based on a ton of experience. I imagine the parts in the 60's were made very much like we used to make them in Poland.

They probably started with a forging; I have seen forging marks on original hubs. The drive flanges, front uprights, and hubs were all forged orignally.

They started with a forging because hogging it from a billet is very time consuming with manual machines. The forged parts would have probably been machined "as forged," as that is the cheapest way to get it from the forging house.

The parts are then rough machined with a certain tolerance left on the part--say 0.020" and then sent to heat treat. After heat treat the parts are finish machined to take out any warpage. Finally, the bearing surfaces and rotor face was ground.

Pre-hardened 4140 is not all that hard. I wouldn't use it. I have nice broken hubs made from 4140 here in the shop that another guy made.

4340 drive line parts are usually heat treated to the high 40's or low 50's RC. That hardness is very difficult to machine, however. I'd use what we use, 17-4PH. The chromoly alloys are just not that great for long life. They corrode like mad.

[MAStuart]

Thanks again David. Where did the 4140 hub brake. Did it brake in the threads or flange for the brake rotor? A blank for a front hub probably starts out at around 33- 35 pounds and I am not sure what a finished one weighs. My guess is about 2/3 of it gets turned into chips. I thought about trying to have someone forge some front and rear hub blanks at one of the places that does open die forgings. I wasn't sure what material should have been used.

Mark

[David Kirkham]

A finished rear hub weighs 6.5 pounds. I wouldn't worry about getting a forging. You won't be able to get it forged close enough to the net size to see the forging marks when you are done anyway. A billet will weigh 51 pounds for a rear hub. You are just asking for a ton of grief. If you are really crazy, I may be able to find some of our old forgings around here.

When the rear hub breaks it snaps at the root of the outer bearing (on the inboard side of the rotor flange). It is a catastrophic, wheel falling off, pants soiling event.

David

[ScratchBuilder]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

When the rear hub breaks it snaps at the root of the outer bearing (on the inboard side of the rotor flange). It is a catastrophic, wheel falling off, pants soiling event.

David

But in that moment hopefully there's time to reflect that at least the right half-shafts are there and didn't break and next time buy hubs from Kirkham
Thanks for the info! I will post pics when mine are painted and assembled.

SB

[MAStuart]

David I just checked where I buy small amounts of metal so the price per pound is high. 17-4 from them is about $7.00 per pound..... It would brake my heart to have to turn 40 plus pounds into chips per rear hub. That a lot of money turned into chips.

I wasn't worried about the forging marks. I thought they would be a little stronger and be easier to machine. Also the amount of chips flying would be a lot less.

If you have some forgings that need machining I would be interested.

Mark

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by ScratchBuilder

But in that moment hopefully there's time to reflect that at least the right half-shafts are there and didn't break and next time buy hubs from Kirkham
Thanks for the info! I will post pics when mine are painted and assembled.

SB

1/2 shafts don't help. The wheel falls off.

David

[David Kirkham]

I'll look for forgings. I doubt we have any.

The 17-4 will end up being cheaper in the long run. The cost/pound is one reason our cars are expensive. We try to make really nice stuff.

[MAStuart]

David The stuff you make are works of art.

Mark

[ScratchBuilder]

Some progress on the half shafts

[ScratchBuilder]

1 more to go, warm day here perfect for painting.