checking solid lifter adjustment

[FredG]

I think the time has come to follow George Carlins advice on dealing with people who enjoy being argumentative. If you don't what it is, just look it up.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ehhhhh, I don't know... do you have any video showing you adjusting the lifters while the engine is running?

[Argess]

Although I remember seeing rockers being adjusted, I may recall things incorrectly as I think this may be what I saw. I wouldn't think an engine that old would have hydraulic lifters either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mfgrFs0jLg

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FredG

I think the time has come to follow George Carlins advice on dealing with people who enjoy being argumentative. If you don't what it is, just look it up.

It's not that I don't believe you, but that Gary is a stickler and I know he won't be satisfied until you go out and set some solid lifters, while the engine is running, and have the video cameras on you while you're doing it. Yep, I think that would satisfy everyone and it's not a lot to ask but, in the meantime, remember I'm in your corner and believe you all the way. It's Gary we have to convince.

[blykins]

How do you even get a feeler gauge in there with it running?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

How do you even get a feeler gauge in there with it running?

You just jam it in there really hard and the valve opens an extra distance equal to whatever gauge you stuck in there. If you end up getting the valve to kiss the top of the piston, then the video gets extra views.

[blykins]

Easy to do a hydraulic cam like that, I’ve done it.

Solid cam? Ehhhh........

[Kit Coyle]

Brent, thanks for chiming in... Do think it is legit for me to check my solid rollers just by using a stethoscope most of the time or am I pissing in my shoes?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

Brent, thanks for chiming in... Do think it is legit for me to check my solid rollers just by using a stethoscope most of the time or am I pissing in my shoes?

I would pull the valve covers and check them, hot, engine off, and run through on the IVC/EVO method.

Solid rollers can bite you hard when the lifters die, I would wanna know if lash changed even by .001-.002”.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

I would pull the valve covers and check them ... engine off

Uhhhh, how 'bout engine on, cameras running?

[patrickt]

... and if you're going to set your solid lifters with the engine running, you might as well use a really big ass wrench on them to get some leverage.

[FredG]

Considering I don't own a car with solids and haven't in 50 years we should try it on yours. Where are you located? Didn't have rollers back then on the car which might make it a little harder. You are not going to tell me you pulled a valve cover just to take the wrench picture are you?

Originally Posted by patrickt

... and if you're going to set your solid lifters with the engine running, you might as well use a really big ass wrench on them to get some leverage.

[patrickt]

No, I had that pic stashed away from a few years ago when someone posted a thread saying they couldn't get the rocker lash nut loose (which is usually only torqued to about 20 ft/lbs). Anyway, it did occur to me that I own a tool that might actually work with the engine running. It is a tool similar to the old P&G Valve Gapper tool. If it didn't get thrown off the rocker, and then eat something up in the process, I think it would indeed work while the engine was running.

[Argess]

From what I can find out, one has the feeler gauge in with the lash set too tight. The lash is gradually increased until the gauge slides out.

I think if I'd have known this, it would have worked for me. Instead I was trying to slide it around to feel the drag... that didn't work.

To start, the gauge can be slid in easily enough. Just takes a little force if the lash is a bit tight. If still won't go in, the lash is too tight, so it needs to be loosened a bit.

[Gaz64]

So, as you can see Fred, others also with lots experience, have chimed in with their own life long experience of setting valve lash on a solid cam V8 similar, as in your example.

You cannot possibly measure a solid cam valve lash in the blink of an eye.

Or can you adjust the solid valve lash in an OHC engine with shim adjustment with the engine running? That I would like to see.

Setting lash with 2 feeler gauges per setting, the 2nd .001 bigger gives us a "go,no-go" for those that can't get the feel correct, example .018 is the target, and add a .019 as the "no-go".

I'm ending this now.

Gary

[FredG]

You should have never started. Remember what I said about George Carlin.

Originally Posted by Gaz64

So, as you can see Fred, others also with lots experience, have chimed in with their own life long experience of setting valve lash on a solid cam V8 similar, as in your example.

You cannot possibly measure a solid cam valve lash in the blink of an eye.

Or you can adjust the solid valve lash in an OHC engine with shim adjustment with the engine running? That I would like to see.

Setting lash with 2 feeler gauges per setting, the 2nd .001 bigger gives us a "go,no-go" for those that can't get the feel correct, example .018 is the target, and add a .019 as the "no-go".

I'm ending this now.

Gary

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by FredG

The solid lifters on my old C1 vette 283 had to be adjusted with the car running using a feeler gauge. I had a set of valve covers with the top cut out to keep the oil under control. I loved the sound of those solids.

Fred

Fred is right about this technique. It was originally used on SBC's with the solid lifter Duntov cams. The technique was useful on ball stud engines like the SBC if the adjuster was either an OEM self locking adjuster or one of the early Polylock adjusters.

This is a pic of the Polylock style adjuster;


The Polylock came about because the OEM adjuster used a distorted thread style of locking mechanism that would loosen over time requiring regular maintenance. The set screw in the top of the Polylock acted as a jam nut to secure the adjuster and extend the time between lash adjustments.

The actual adjustment technique involved, starting the engine and ever so slightly loosening the lash to insert the target thickness feeler gauge for the lash you wanted to set and then progressively tightening the adjuster until the clatter from the lash disappeared and/or you could just barely move the feeler gauge around while the engine was running.

If you over tightened the adjuster, the feeler gauge would not be possible to move and certainly there would be no sound from the lifters as the clearance ramps on the cam gently brought the lifter up onto the opening ramp of the cam.

The technique, other than being messy because of how the SBC oiled the top end, was amazingly accurate. Some argued, credibly so, that it was the most accurate method of valve adjustment. With the arrival of the Polylock this type of adjustment was still possible as long as the body of the poly lock had a slight interference fit with the stud. After the lash was set for each valve the set screw (if you used a Polylock) in the top of the adjuster would be used to lock the adjuster in place.

Without ball stud rockers most other makes would not use this technique. The exception would be if your rockers had self locking adjusters. If they did then you could use the same adjustment style the SBC guys did — with the same oil control/management issues.

Engines with adjusters that used jam nuts required one more hand than available to do this style of valve lash adjustment. As such the EOIC or other approach was used to lash the valves in an engine while not running.

If you are less than 70 you likely never heard about this stuff and definitely never saw it happen — but it did and it was / is real.


Ed

[blykins]

All I can picture is a feeler gauge set moving up and down at 1000 rpm.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Fred is right about this technique. It was originally used on SBC's with the solid lifter Duntov cams.

See Fred? I told you I believed you, it was that Gary that needed convincing.

[Argess]

Originally Posted by blykins

All I can picture is a feeler gauge set moving up and down at 1000 rpm.

Half that, I think.... as if it matters.

[Gaz64]

Well, my apologies to Fred.

Seems we can all learn something new, even if it is so far away from normal.

And even the majority in this thread did not believe this.

Apologies to the OP for thread deviation.

Gary