Octane Booster's. Worth it? - Page 2

Excaliber · #21 (**permalink**) 09-22-2002, 03:36 PM

My "X" is a PhD chemist, she's gotten pretty good at researching my chemical "car questions" for me (so I'm still nice to her, lol).

Octane Booster's increase the "host" gasolines ability to resist abnormal combustion by using manganese. LIKE "LEAD" of the old days, manganese releases vapors during combustion that surround the gases farthest away from the spark plug, thus keeping them from being ignited by "hot spots" or pressure spikes. Ensuring a more "controlled burn". Combustion is NOT an explosion process, THATS pre-ignition! So boosters don't "add" power, they allow the existing fuel to be used in the most "efficent" way.

Therefore, if pre ignition is NOT a problem, no gain will be realized from booster! Like Cobrashoch said pre-ign is so insidious how do you KNOW you don't have it, and I bet MOST engines have SOME!

Rule of thumb for timing:

87 UP TO 100 octane: Base timing and total advance remains the same (MOSTLY). The higher the octane, the more power you are LIKELY to make at the same timing (more control of the burn rate).

AFTER 100 octane, it gets complicated:
RETARD the total timing 4 to 5 degress! Uh oh, here comes the "controversey" part...
RED alert, man the guns, were about to be over run!

A high octane fuel (like RACE gas) generally means it is a faster burning fuel with more "power" inherent within the fuel (octane does MAKE power, it controls the BURN). With a faster burning fuel it is likely you will get better burn control with slightly less total timing, therefore, you will make more "power".

Whew,,,I'm done.

Ernie

justa6 · #22 (**permalink**) 09-22-2002, 05:54 PM

This has been thrashed several times. My car runs 11 1/2 to 1 compression. No normal octane booster moves the octane by more than 5 "points" ie .5 of 1 octane. Basically a waste of your hard earned money. The answer, IMO, is to use xylene or toulene just like the oil companies use in race gas. You buy it at any paint store.

10% (1gal toulene or xylene) plus 9 gal of 93 octane gives you a true 97-98 octane. That is what I do and have no problems with detonation. My motor puts out around 1.8 HP per cubic inch so it needs good gas. I buy either for around 6 bucks a gal so my average 93 at 1.50 a gal gives me 13.50 plus 6, 19.50 divided by 10 or 1.95 per gallon mixed. Works great and keeps everything immaculate in the engine.

MAKE SURE YOU MIX IT IN A CAN FIRST. DO NOT SIMPLY POUR THE CHEMICAL INTO YOUR TANK IF YOU HAVE AN IN TANK FUEL PUMP.
PREMIX IT IN A 5 GAL CAN FIRST EVEN IF YOU DON'T AS YOU DON'T WANT TO SPILL IT ON YOUR PAINT>

FWIW,

Bob

Excaliber · #23 (**permalink**) 09-22-2002, 06:05 PM

Wonder if that Xylene and Toulene contain the "magic" ingredient "manganese" or do they contain good old fashioned "lead", or is there a third compound producing the same effect..........

I will have to ask the "chemist", ha ha.

MEAN looking V6 by the way!

Ernie

justa6 · #24 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 05:54 AM

I don't think the two chemicals contain lead or manganese. Toulene is what is put into racing gas to raise the octane. Xylene actually increases it slightly more.

I know a lot of people who use the recipe and no one that I know of has had any trouble. It simply works. The aftermarket "stuff" uses pretty much the same thing except the ratio is too small to do much. 1/2 of an octane won't do much.

As for the Buick 6 I run, it is "Mean". 473HP 10.8@124mph in the 1/4 mile. No nitrous or turbo, just a 4 barrel Holley. Oh and it gets over 20mpg on the highway...

Regards,

Sizzler · #25 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 06:52 AM

My personal opinion.

Don't get hooked on booster.

If you need it now, the situation will only get worse in the future. I'd pull the heads and work on the chambers to reduce compression, maybe investigate different gaskets, before getting started on booster. What happens if you're someplace and you run out?

Just my opinion on it.

cobrashoch · #26 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 07:46 AM

The laquer thinner thread continues to breath. A old thread, that took this subject pretty much to its conclusion. Might be worthwhile for you new folks to search out and review this old thread. It does have some interesting things to say. Try looking under "Octane Additives" and another thread call "Homemade Octane Boost".
cobrashock

Hotfingrs · #27 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 08:07 AM

Bob, exactly what are you putting in with your gas....and where are you getting it.? Thanks Jack

cobrashoch · #28 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 08:09 AM

A snake - Turbo Blue contains alcohol and that is primarly where its octane boost comes from. I MUCH prefer racing gas or plain unleaded 97 to 103 octane gas that does not have alcohol in it. You don't have to use as much as turbo blue to be as effective. Also there is nothing in it (alcohol) that buffers your fuel to the point were adding more makes it useless.
The toluene post by justa6 is a very good post and his results are valid. Another thing you can do is look for gas stations that sell 93/94 octane gas that does not have alcohol in it. There IS a difference between premium fuels out there.
Ernie - Retarding ignition is a mainstay when supercharging. It took me a while back in the late 70's to figure that one out. cobrashock

justa6 · #29 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 08:36 AM

The xylene or toulene can be obtained from any paint store. I had my local guy order me a case of xylene in gallon containers. He charged me 6 bucks a gallon and it is, IMO, the easiest way to go with my car. Also, some one mentioned what you do if your "out" and can't put it in.

What I do is fill the tank when its only 1/2 empty. That way I just go to a lower %. But I have run it on just 93 octane and simply don't "get on it" and I get no pinging. Although at my high idle (900-1000) I do have to drag the clutch in gear when I shut it off with 93 or it will "runon" for a second or two if I don't. No big deal...

Regards,

cobrashoch · #30 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 09:25 AM

Bob - Do you use xylene as apposed to toluene? Interesting, as toluene has a slightly better octane rating. I have used "ink grade" toluene before that is used in printing shops. Sells for about $2.50 a gallon. Best way to order it is in a drum if you have a place to store it and you are going to use it all the time.
I also wonder out loud if there is any performance differance between regular toluene and the anhydrous stuff. That may be a question for a petro engineer though.

cobrashoch

Hotfingrs · #31 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 09:31 AM

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html at that website they list xylene as having the better octane...

cobrashoch · #32 (**permalink**) 09-23-2002, 09:42 AM

Jack - I stand corrected about the octane differance. I had that sites information printed out somewhere in this mess though. Thanks.
cobrashoch

George Snyder · #33 (**permalink**) 12-29-2002, 08:45 AM

justa6,
Do you just add the Toluene straight? Ithought most people that mix their own added other ingredients to the batch as a lubricant and cleaning agent?
A note: I have researched Home Brews and it seems still cost effective to purchase Race fuel and add it to acheive the octane needed.
I personally think that addressing the Dynamic Comp. ratio Vs. the Static Comp. ratio would be a better solution, at least on most engines.
http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html
George