351 C good bad ???

Jinx · #1 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 04:56 AM

I have a 351C and most people tell me this engine is junk, old,dinasour.....I have tweek the motor mild put a AOD tranny,2800 torch coverter 9in rear with 430 gear 48m Ida webers car has not been driven yet almost finish painting this pileof what?????? people have told me I wasted a lot of money on this car ??? could use some expert opinions ..... the car I bought already had 351C in it or I would of used something else I think I not a mechanic drives me nuts to hear how i screwed up???? I guess I will find out when finished what do you think ........... lay it on me I can take it ..need more of my fair share of abuse .........thanxs.....jinx

TheRobb · #2 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 06:55 AM

Its not a junk engine.
Im assuming your saying you built the engine up.
(cant tell, bad english or lots of typos).

But basically, a 351C is alright except its heads are too big. This makes it a poor engine for streetability.
A 351C makes a better race engine, because it needs to be revved fast and hard all the time to run properly, because of its heads.
Thats why the engine didnt last long as a street engine.

The guy that made the "bitten by the snake" video had bought a cobra with a 351C. At the end, he says he wished he bought a cobra with a 351W instead, because its a more streetable engine.

-Robb

CobraEd · #3 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 07:03 AM

Only the 4bbl heads are too big. If it is a 2bbl engine they are ok. The engine is basicaly a good engine, but some points to consider:

The whole claim to fame on this engine was breathing (heads). Now and days with the great aftermarket aluminum heads available for the Windsor 351, you get even better breathing along with the latest design combustion chambers. Also the Cleveland was heavier than the Windsor, and had a weaker bottom end. But, . . It is not a bad engine, in fact in its day it was a very good engine, just doesnt quite have some of the benefits of the Windsor now that all the new aftermarket stuff is available.

Ed

ron427 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 07:42 AM

jinx
If I am not mistaken, Bill Elliott's number nine Coors Thunderbird ran a cleveland in the mid eighties. For those that put down your engine, show them the nascar speed records. Almost 213 mph at Talladega.
Ron

kountzecobra · #5 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 09:08 PM

Using a 4.30 rear gear is on the right track. Rev it and enjoy- Windsors are truck motors. Taken care of, it will last. Later, David.

Jinx · #6 (**permalink**) 06-12-2002, 04:25 AM

I forgot to tell you I also board 30 over and put 2in headers so it will breath ??? yep 4bbl heads I had trouble with the webers tuning every one says throw them away and put a holly on also weber as Ive been told dose not make 48m ADI any more ??? junk??? guess Ill find out when finished with this car. sorry about the typos ROBB typing is new to me.......pick and peck you know....as for grammar isnt that the guy on frazer... thanxs jinx

Mr.Fixit · #7 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 02:15 PM

Clevelends don't have all the goodies (alum heads, roller cams, etc) available for them as windsors do, but I have driven a couple of absolutely SCREAMING clevelend powered cobras, and one pantera. They seem to want more compression and gearing due to the heads not having low rpm velocity which makes them want a bigger cam and higher rpm powerband. That's what I've noticed. A clevelend with 4bbl heads, 9:1 compression and a mild cam doesn't work right. They like 11:1 (or greater) and high rpm.

Jamo · #8 (**permalink**) 06-14-2002, 12:49 AM

Yes--the low end is not quite what Windsors can put out--but get the revs up and hold onto your a$$. I have the 4v heads with 10.5 compression with some medium gearing in the Jag rear and I find it to be fine on the street. I'm running a 750 Holly and dual plane Offy. It idles just fine, keeps cool (note the VICE trip through Death Valley where I stayed up with Turk and Pat with their SOs). I've had no problems with running this car in autocrosses and on the track as well as regularly on the street.

Tell those who criticize to kiss your a$$--it's a good motor and it's a bit different than the run of the mill stuff. Enjoy what you have.

Thomas Gayer · #9 (**permalink**) 06-15-2002, 04:11 AM

drive your Cleveland til it croaks.
if i'm not mistaken you can put all your cleveland parts into the new DART block. it will not accept any 351 W junk. so when one door closes another opens. the Dart is capable of up to 2000 HP on street gas.
tomas

RACER X #99 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-15-2002, 05:52 AM

Good choice.

Crankster

wadesdad · #11 (**permalink**) 06-26-2002, 10:00 AM

Jinx,

Telling someone their choice in engines sucks is like telling your buddy his wife is ugly and her cooking sucks, just after you've eaten dinner at his house.

The Cleveland is FINE!

You want wierd - try my 400M, (.030 over = 406) which is a Cleveland with another inch of deck height!

-wadesdad

jdean · #12 (**permalink**) 07-17-2002, 07:37 PM

but the 400M is one of Ford's best kept secrets. Long rods for a great rod/stroke ratio. 4"x4" bore/stroke. Most all Cleveland stuff fits.

It has been around a long time. Folks with a stroked 351W are getting a lot of what the 400M already has. They just have a lot more aftermarket choices.

Seems like guys who have done a bit to increase performance on the 400 all really like them.

John

Jack21 · #13 (**permalink**) 07-20-2002, 08:26 PM

If you have a Cleveland engine, use it. There are some block oiling issues you might want to discuss with the Cleveland engine gurus just to make sure it lives. Crane makes retrofit hydraulic roller cams for it. But like the man said, Clevelands have 1,000 - 1,500 more usable RPM up top with 4V heads than Windsors do, so build your bottom end accordingly.

Look into a 393 Cleveland stroker. Get the cubic inches up there to catch up with the improved breathing of the heads.

Federal emissions requirements are what killed the Cleveland, but down under in Australia, they're still making them, and racing them. Check with the Aussies for the latest in Cleveland engine tech and parts. They have a new aluminum C3V head for it. 4V valves, 2V ports. Similar to rationale in BBC oval port heads being better street motors than rectangular port heads for improved mid range torque.

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 08-15-2002, 12:00 PM

The 351C was always considered a superior engine to the 351W, "back in the day". No doubt it will produce more HP than a W. But at what price? The "Boss 302" of Mustang fame is also considered an awesome motor. Both motors share a common problem. The large valves demanded extreme RPM's to get the power. This led to a lot of blown engines in road race applications. There is no free lunch. Myself? I think it's VERY cool to see a 351C, not many are left. I think NASCAR now runs the 351W, but "back in the day".............

By the way, I think Bill Elliot still holds the circle track top speed record set with a Ford several (many?) years ago. 234 mph I believe. Was he running a W or a C at the time I wonder!
Ernie

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 08-15-2002, 12:04 PM

And those Webers? Man that is SO cool! OK, so there hard to tune, what ever, NOTHING looks as good as Webers do! And on a 351C,,,,,thats awesome!
Ernie

jamesson · #16 (**permalink**) 08-15-2002, 01:51 PM

Hey Jinx,

sounds perrrttty!
Wheres the pics?

Jinx · #17 (**permalink**) 08-16-2002, 05:43 AM

soon as I finish Ill send pics......compamotive/motorsports in PA have had my rims for 5 months. They sent me my back rims 2 months ago,just polished,look good but my front rims they were going to change back space 1/2 in .......how long is to long? 5 months I would think!! I have tires ready car is ready but I cant get them to send me my rims..hard to drive the car with out them.....paid them already...am I asking too much?????? jinx

bloated_rd_kill · #18 (**permalink**) 08-16-2002, 02:35 PM

My neighbor has a Pantera with a 351C and webers. I took a ride in it the other day -WOW- quick. Also the coolness factor of the webers right over your shoulder. Anyways, I asked him about tuning the webers since I always hear that they are a pain. He set them up once and has not touched them. Maybe he is lucky, I don't know.

-bloated

racer24 · #19 (**permalink**) 08-16-2002, 04:44 PM

Jinx

I have a 351 C with 2-V heads and have no problems at all. Runs
real well and at faster the speeds ,55 and above it really hooks up. Have 3000 miles on it right now. You have a very good engine that just loves to rev. It was the gas crunch that ended the cleveland in the U.S. Mine is only about 375 hp which makes it very streetable . My rear end is a 87 turbo coupe with posi 3:73 gear , and the old FMX automatic tranny. It will lay rubber at stepping down on it at 55 mph. Not too bad. I used a restictor instead of the thermostat ,keeps the engine at 180 never above 200 in traffic. The cleveland name gets a lot of respect . This is what makes cobras so special anything goes , and goes fast, have fun .

Rich

ohekk · #20 (**permalink**) 08-16-2002, 04:59 PM

I too have a 351 Cleveland. 10.5 compression,4V heads, Tremec TKO with 3.23 gears and it hauls a$$.

I agree that availabilty of performance parts is the challenge.

I like that it fills the engine compartment very nicely...not too BIG where it becomes difficult to work on and not too small where it looks ...er aah..._____. (you fill in the blank)