Pin drives/tight fit/way too tight

[427SSSS]

Didn't get much response at Local Clubs BACC so I'm moving it over here:

THE WHOLE THREAD:

Spinner Removal Tool

MY SPECIFIC QUESTION

How tight do your pins fit the holes?

OK the spinner removal tool works great, but, but, but, then removing the wheel from the pins????(or putting the wheel on)

Just how tight is the fit?
I got the pin-alignment tool from Trigo to set the pins right prior to mounting wheel, but the tolerance between the pins and the holes in the Compomotive wheels is so close, they are a bear to remove.(or put on) (after fighting for two days, I still can only get the right rear wheel on with only four pins, if I put the fifth pin in, there is no way the wheel will go over all five pins)(the Trigo pin-alignment tool goes on snugly)

Watching the Formula One, and Cart races this weekend (aren't they pin drives), the pit crews removed/replaced the wheels with ease. The tolerance on the pins/holes can't be as close as mine.

Anyone hone out the wheel holes to make the install/removal process easier?

Just how tight do the pins need to fit into the holes?

Thanks, Wayne


__________________

[Fred Douglass]

...I have recently gotten word from an unimpeachable source that Trigo ordered a large stock of pins which are: 1) too malleable (Sp?) and 2) have to be machiined for EACH fit---truly a nightmare. Oh, forgot to mention---Trigo ordered them from Mainland China------ooooh baby, sooner or later, they ALWAYS try to shave some pennies---another source says look elsewhere for pin-drives (Phil Schmidt at P&S Engineering, Torrance, CA is a master wheelwright) OR wait out Trigo, 'til they sell all their crap pins....

[Bud Man]

Its easy enough to mike your pins and holes to see if there are restrictions, but don't forget to use a light coating of anti seize on the pins and hub threads prior to mounting, and occasionally remove your wheels, clean the pins and wheel holes, and recoat with anti seize. There is always the possibility of corrosion and galling, due to the contact of aluminum (wheel) and steel (pins).

Bud

[JR Pennell]

I have also had the problem that no way would the Trigo wheels go on the pins. In screwing down the pins I discovered they had a wobble as they turned. The screw hole centers were not straight; thus the pins leaned one way and the other not matching the hubs. Lynn Parks aknowledged that the problem existed and sent me all new pins and an alignment tool.
I finally could get the wheels on, still with a great deal of struggle using anti seize. I dread the day when I have to take them off again. My pins still tend to go 5 different directions.

[427SSSS]

SCOBRAC,
the link you posted goes to your photos, here at CC, not a thread???

JR Pennell
I don't have Trigos, I do have the Trigo alignment tool.
I have Compomotives from Hell, shipped with the wrong backspacing twice, the third time, total of 10 months+/- later, they are correct, look real nice, and I'll NEVER order Compomotives again.

Bud Man
It's not each individual pin/hole that is the problem, it's with such a close tolerance on each, (each/any of my pins will go into each/any hole) but once all five pins are on, it's a bear to get the wheel on/off.

Fred Douglass,
Got my pins from Compomotive, they are soft, first tap with a hammer and I realize I needed to use a wood block between the hammer/pins.
They also wobble and end up in 5 different directions as JR Pennell's did.
With out the alignment, there wouldn't be a chance in hell of getting these things on.
I've already considered having some made out of tougher material.

MY QUESTION REMAINS- DOES THE TOLERANCE NEED TO BE SO TIGHT? CAN THE HOLES IN THE WHEELS BE ENLARGED A LITTLE TO ALLOW THE WHEEL TO GO ON/OFF EASIER? Just a little honing of the holes.......

[Rick Parker]

A 49/64 drill/reamer for the holes in the wheels will leave sufficent clearance for the 3/4" round drive/pin nuts. What size are the holes in the Trigo wheels?

Rick

[Fred Douglass]

My Trigos are sitting out in Ventura, CA. I'm running bolt-ons right now. I have heard a vile rumor that SCCA sanctioning bodies are going to stipulate that pin-drives aren't going to be allowed in competition! This plus double roll-bars---Gawd, what's next, total roll-cages? The Lefty "Safety-Nazis" are into EVERYTHING! As to honing the holes---it certainly sounds better than turning each pin to fit "its" hole---what a nightmare! Lyn oughta stick to what work(ed)!

Rick,
See above---my pin-drives are a-setting out west, where I'm gonna have 'em put on a bare roller.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[xcobraj]

Wayne,took my pins to my machine shop,put them in the lathe,apparently the bevel on the pins don't match the bevel on the adapter.Matched the angle to both now wheels go on and off like they are suppose to.Also Lynn sent me the black pins and the fit good also.Call Lynn he knows about the situation.

[427SSSS]

I was dumb enough to order Compomotives, NEVER do that again! (came with WRONG backspacing twice, took a total of 10 months to get right) (and yes, I will say that over, and over, and over again, so maybe the next person will think twice before ordering from Compomotive, not only will they NOT consider refunding my twice-return shipping costs, they had the audacity to ask me to pay their cost to send them to me wrong twice!)

xcobraj,
I wonder in Lynn's black Trigo pins would/will fit my Compos?

Fred Douglass,
I was thinking about having completely NEW pins made, (maybe out of stainless?) I have a really good friend that's a gunsmith, has his own complete shop, he said it would be a piece of cake, just take some time/money. I don't want to ask him to do it if it's not necessary, if there is a way to make these work so the wheels go on/off easier. Or if Lynn's black pins might work.

Let's see, the Trigo "pin-adjustment tool" works on the Compomotives, so maybe the black pins will work. The pins I got with the wheels are just way, way too soft.

[RPRICE]

Had a simular problem with the Trigo pins a few years ago. They ended up with high spots after tightening with the allen wrench. The pins are so soft that a machine shop and lathe are not needed. Took a 1/4x3 carraige head bolt and spooled the pin on and tightened down with a washer and nut. Put the bolt into a hand drill and held a piece of sand paper to the pin as it was spinning until it was shinny all around. Could easily surface 5 pins in under 5 minutes. Hope this helps.
Richard Price
Memphis

[xcobraj]

Wayne give Lynn a call,The chrome pins are to soft.unbelievable

[427SSSS]

Thanks, xcobraj,
I ordered the black pins from Trigo.

[Ed Rynex, Jr.]

I noted the issue of the pins. I recently broke a pin on my ERA, a 6 pin attachment on the rear axle. I purchaced replacement pins from ERA the specs called for 4140 steel with rockwell heat treatment to C36. My pins measure .491" Diameter and are a 1" pin with an overal length of 1.625 " I tested the fit in the wheel and there is room to spare. Pins are also nicely chamfered.
My problem was removing the wheels to begin with -first time since I owned the car(9/98) used my brass hammer to remove the spinners - took a lot of work no damage to the spinners. Will coat the pins/hub and thread liberally with anti-seize. I will remove and coat at least once a year going forward.
With the misalignment of the pins that have been discussed in this thread it would seem that somone did a poor job of machining the hubs and/or reading the drawings before drilling the pin holes and did not thread the holes for proper alignment. When screwed in the shoulder of the pin should snug up tp the hub seated flat against it. (This is all dependant on eveything being machined properly and out of the correct materials). Mistakes have been made - one only need to look at the recalls by major auto makers to see that the wrong bolt or nut was supplied on ocassion and had to be replaced (probably mismarked or improperly heat treated).
I wish you all the best in getting your pins straightened out (no pun intended) and your back spacing issues resolved. We all want to be back on the road where we belong.

[chopper]

FWIW, the pin-drives on the rear end of my ERA are "snug" also. Front wheels slide off relatively easy. Rear wheels have to be wiggled side-to-side to get them to slide off the pins. I guess this is a good thing as there is just about zero freeplay when the wheels are on and the spinner tightened, but it does take just a bit of wiggling to get the rear wheels off. I have not had to lubricate the pins with anything yet. although I make sure to keep the spinner and threads well-lubricated with anti-seize. I also have on of Mr. Enzo's magnificant spinner removal tools which I find I need periodically. ("Enzo for President")

[427SSSS]

xcobraj, et al.

I got the black pins from Trigo, WOW, what a difference.
Lt rear, no pin adjustment necessary, wheel went on easy.
Rt rear, where I could only get the wheel on with only four of the Compomotive soft chrome pins, with a little, very little, adustment to the black pins with the Trigo alignment tool, the wheel went on! Tad tight, but she's on.

Thanks people, for the suggestions/help.

[xcobraj]

Great to hear!