Stellings & Hellings w/ K&N airflow

[rdorman]

For all of us that use the vintage Stellings and Hellings air cleaners.

Flow figures for K&N 9" filters that fit the air cleaner:
- 2.75" 467 CFM
- 4" (some list it as 5") 763 CFM

Still not enough? Put the K&N 9" Xtreem air cleaner lid on for daily use and with the 5" filter get a total of 863 CFM. Not to shabby for a little 9" air cleaner.

Have your turkey pan and eat it to?

Rick

[Chaplin]

Rick-
You don't by any chance have the K&N part number or a web link for that 9" air filter do you? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks,
Mike

[rdorman]

You could just put the Stellings lid on one of these assemblies when you are looking for a more 'correct' look.

I have yet to fit these up together, though I will be soon!

Xtreem assembly
66-3150 for the 2.75" filter
66-3160 for the 4/5" filter.

Air filter, the K&N site lists the same filter number for both! So one is wrong, E-3530.

I did a little more searching and was able to find E-3650 for a 5" x 9" filter.

Rick

[rdorman]

On a side note, the look of your engine compartment is where I am going. While I have a Cleveland and not an FE, I am trying for that more 'original' FE 'look'.

Any details about the finish on various parts would be helpful.

I have already aquired the turkey pan and stellings air cleaner. I have the hood clearence to put in a 5" filter which will be enough air flow for me. I have found cast pent roof valve covers for the Cleveland. But, I already have a set of finned covers and am going to strip the black paint on them and polish/brush them up a bit.

I found a used FE expansion tank that I am going to change over to left hand entry. The trick of course is that the FE manifold inlet is vertical where the Cleveland is horizontal. So the plan is to take the existing 90 that runs from the tank to the housing, modify the housing as required and flip the 90 so that it comes out of the back of the tank and downward. I have yet to mock it up to see how it will look/work.

I am also going to get rid of the kool flex radiator hoses and go to a rigid pipe. When ever I get around to pulling the motor, I want to line the engine compartment with aluminum.

What I am looking for is an old look. Like a 40 year old car that has been used but has been meticulousy been cleaned and maintained. You know like an original race car in a musuem. Not restored, not taken apart and had every piece plated and painted but rather the patina that is acheived over years of hard work.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Rick

[decooney]

Chaplin,
You'll want to measure your ERA as compared to the Unique setup mentioned. Different height provisions. The motor in my Unique sat 1.5 to 2" lower and 3" back further than my current ERA; so a shorter filter is in order for your ERA as to what is mentioned above. You can also trim the lower base unit on a 9" to gain another 1/4" or so/ May need to trim a notch for the float boal screws and your base plate will be indexed from there on.

I have the top and bottom from K&N now and trying to squeeze in a nother 1/4" height. Very close. You also need to watch the top of the air cleaner to scoop clearance during motor torque. The motor on the ERA sits over just a bit, so the top is not dead center with the scoop. You can use small blocks of wood to test the heights. Use a flashlight to look in into the scoop with the hood closed. Can't check now, but I think mine is 2.75 tall now, trying to go to three if they still make the 3" high. Not sure yet about that combined with the K&N top yet. I'm running no carb spacer, but 2 alluminum separators and 3 gaskets which adds 1/4 too on top of the Edelbrock Performer FE intake.

[speed220mph]

Rick,
Were the two filters flowed at the same pressure, i.e., 28 inches or what? I have K&N filters of equivalent size on the way so I can flow them with the Snelling & Hellings as a baseline just to make sure I get legit figures. We all know numbers don't lie, but . . . Well, you know the rest.

[rdorman]

The Flow numbers where received in writing from K&N technical assitance. Some where on their site they talk about how they determine air flow.

Clearence. I use playdo (sp) some times. Leave the existing air cleaner/filter on, put a few 'columns' of playdo around the rim of the air cleaner, close and open hood, measure playdo!

I have always been amazed at how much room is over and in front of the engine in my Unique. Now if I could only get to the plugs easily!

Rick

[speed220mph]

Rick,

I've posted in my gallery a photo of K&N E-2570 filters in place of the original S&H filters on my 2X4 Holley setup. The K&N's are slightly taller and larger in diameter, but fit nicely. I will do a back-to-back airflow check on these and post the figures to "filter" out any supplier smoke.
See pix: http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/s...t=1&thecat=500

[427 S/O]

K&N sucks, do what I did.....
Check my pics......

[speed220mph]

Got any flow figures?

[rdorman]

E-2570? That differs from the part numbers I show for 9". Can you tell me how you arrived at that filter and is there a taller version of the same? You have a flow bench?

"K&N sucks" Can you be more specific? I am a little confused by your pictures. It looks like a K&N filters and some sort of screen/mesh top. Is it some thing different?

Rick

[rdorman]

Update. I took my Stellings and Hellings air cleaner to Jegs for a little air filter fitting. The 9" will not fit. There is a 8.25" x 2.5" filter that will fit. But there again we are down to less than 450 CFM.

Doing a search I found the following that would fit:
part# o.d. i.d. h.
E-2570 8.188 6.25 1.875
E-2600 8.188 6.25 2.188
E-1025 8.25 6.875 2.5

I have emailed K&N for CFM ratings and will post when received.

By the way, the E-2570 is the stock replacement filter for a 1988 Yugo GVS! Yugo Cobra????

I think what I will do is stack them for everyday use and take one off for those moments where I am looking for the stock look.

Rick

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by decooney


Chaplin,
You'll want to measure your ERA as compared to the Unique setup mentioned. Different height provisions. The motor in my Unique sat 1.5 to 2" lower and 3" back further than my current ERA; so a shorter filter is in order for your ERA as to what is mentioned above. You can also trim the lower base unit on a 9" to gain another 1/4" or so/ May need to trim a notch for the float boal screws and your base plate will be indexed from there on.

I have the top and bottom from K&N now and trying to squeeze in a nother 1/4" height. Very close. You also need to watch the top of the air cleaner to scoop clearance during motor torque. The motor on the ERA sits over just a bit, so the top is not dead center with the scoop. You can use small blocks of wood to test the heights. Use a flashlight to look in into the scoop with the hood closed. Can't check now, but I think mine is 2.75 tall now, trying to go to three if they still make the 3" high. Not sure yet about that combined with the K&N top yet. I'm running no carb spacer, but 2 alluminum separators and 3 gaskets which adds 1/4 too on top of the Edelbrock Performer FE intake.

Duane- You are absolutely correct. I bought the 9" xstream filter and top and no good- it's tool tall. I bought a cheap 9" filter base which sits a little flatter than the K&N base and it's close but still doesn't fit. May need to trim little off of it.'

Rick, et al., interesting note. The 9" K&N xstream lid fits snugly in the 8.5" s&h air filter. If you look on the bottom of the 9" xstream lid it is recessed and fits perfectly in the s&h size filter. So, until I can find a base low enough to allow me to run the full 9" xstream filter and top, I've just stuck the xstream lid on top of the s&h filter.

[rdorman]

Here are the K&N air flow figures for air filters that will fit the Stellings & Hellings air cleaners. Prepare yourself.

E-2570 is 290 cfm, E-2600 is 338 cfm and E-1025 is 389 cfm.

I never thought about buying a dual four setup and running twin holley 360's but now maybe I have an excuse!

So for daily use, looks like I will be stacking them. I might rap them in a pre-filter wrap simply for appearence sake.

If these are accurate 'real world' numbers, Ouch.

Speed220mph, you mentioned that you where going to do some flow tests. Any news on that front? Did you read K&N's flow test procedures? If so, anything we should know about that?

Rick

[speed220mph]

Rick,
Here's K&N's procedure. Most of it describes the calibration of the SuperFlow bench, but they do discuss diameters and radiused inlets and all that stuff.http://www.knfilters.com/testmethod.htm

One thing of note, they are flowing at a very low pressure, or 1.5 inches of water. What I plan on doing--haven't done yet--is flow a 4 Bbl carb without a filter, then flow the Stelling & Hellings followed by the K&N. Guess I'd better get busy. While I'm at it, I should test a big-diameter filter with the latest housing just to make me feel bad about what I'm running. At least I have 2X4 Bbl setup.

One thing is for sure: To maintain some originality, airflow is sacrifice. There are much better filter setups that the Stellings & Hellings, what with more area, shaped bases, an cold-air ducting. But I'm just trying to maintain the original "old tech" look, but with more filtering capability and, hopefully, some improved airflow. But for a serious show, the foam Stellings & Hellings goes back on.

[Lew Ledyard]

Is a single S&H/K&N/turkey pan set-up inadequate for a 482 c.i. Shelby motor producing around 550 hp/tq?

[rdorman]

I read the way they test but not being any sort of flow bench expert...... thanks for the input!

That 1.5 inch, I figured that was because a motor at full throttle doesn't pull much vacuum. Am I looking at this wrong?

The flow figures they quoted me are for the filter alone.

I am REALLY looking forward to your test. A bare carb, s&h with a K&N filter, and then something like a 14" K&N. Should be very interesting. I would also be interested to know the pressure drop inside the aircleaner. Wouldn't running a restrictive air cleaner be like running at very high altitudes? Wouldn't the car run lean compared to no restriction?

Yes Lew, very much so.

Thanks
Rick

[speed220mph]

Rick,
The reason they are using such a low pressure drop is the flow bench simply can't pump enough air at higher test pressures such as 10 or 28 inches with just the filter as the restriction. It's too low. A cylinder head with manifold and carburetor in between would be a different story.

And, yes, the filter would be similar to running at a higher elevation because ambient pressure, say 29.92 "Hg (14.7 psi) standard pressure, would exist outside the filter unless there is some ram effect. But a restriction causing a loss of pressure through the filter would naturally drop the pressure over the carb, much like would happen with an increase in elevation. But a restrictive inlet is worse. The exhaust system must expell the exhaust into the higher pressure atmosphere, reducing pumping efficiency and making a filter restriction worse than would higher elevation.

Another bad thing with an air inlet restriction and a float bowl that's vented directly to the atmophere: The air/fuel mixture enrichens--gets "fatter"--since the pressure on top of the fuel is higher than that over the carb inlet. Sort of a choke effect. There's more vacuum in the ventri(s) to draw in fuel and more pressure on top of the fuel to push it in. This is why final jetting should be done with all induction-system componnents in place. Don't you love fuel injection with O2 sensors, baro sensors and all that hi-tech stuff that compensates for you?

[Lew Ledyard]

If a single S&H/K&N combo flows insufficiently for a single quad set-up on a stroked Shelby BB, would a dual carb/air filter set up flow enough?

[ToyCollector]

Guys, on my last car, a 484 CID FE, I ran the turkey pan/S&H/K&N set up. For giggles, I ran the carb naked. No difference other than more noise. Somewhere, someone did some dyno stuff as well and the difference was so marginal it was statistically insignificant.