Engine purchase recommendation

[trentballew]

I am starting the process of building an LSC 427 and need a recommendation on where to get a good crate engine (preferrably long block or turnkey). I want a 351W but I really don't have the skill to build/rebuild one myself - yet. Lone Star recommends EngineFactory but they are crazy expensive. A performance shop local to DFW might be helpful. Thanks.

[fordracing65]

Without a doubt get Brent Blykins to build you what you need...brent@b2motorsportsllc.com, PM me if you need his phone number, he knows everything about these motors, he has the fairest prices around, and he is on this forum all the time offering free advice and is respected 100% by everyone I have talked with... If you don't use him you are wasting your money somewhere else...

[jhv48]

If you are considering a Roush engine, do a search here and read the various comments on their reliability, oil consumption and warranty exclusions.

[lippy]

I would second the recommendation to speak with Brent. He is building my FE. Although I don't have the engine yet, I can tell you he is a good guy to deal with, and he is fair. Very knowledgeable and detail oriented. B2 Motorsports LLC. When I was making my builder choice, I also spoke with Tom at FE Specialties and Barry at Survival and they seemed excellent as well.

[bobcowan]

351W's and their derivatives are pretty common. If you're not looking for anything spectacular (racing engine), then you have a lot of good options.

Be prepared to spend a bit of coin. You're not building an FE, so you don't have to sell the children and mortgage the farm. But a quality assembly won't be exactly cheap.

When looking for an engine, there's a few things to look for, and a few things not to look for. Drive quality is more important than power output. You can get 500hp out of a 302. But don't expect it to be easy to drive on the street, or handle pump gas well.

In no particular order, here's my opinion on various sources.

Mike Forte, Brent Blykins, and Gordon Levy (in no particular order) are probably three of the best sources for a "custom" built engine. They've built enough of them to know what works and what doesn't. Their prices are reasonable, and their work is excellent. They will stand by their products if there's a problem. You can usually get them on the phone on a Sunday afternoon.

Mike Forte built my engine. If I needed another, I would call him again in a minute.

The Engine Factory: seems to have a good reputation. Assemblies are nothing special, though.

Ford Racing: The Ford crate motors sound good, but there have been a number of quality issues with them. I would consider them if you could get a really good price.

Rousch Racing: They have a very poor record for quality builds and customer service. I wouldn't even consider them.

Anything from a shop in Indiana should be suspect. There was a scammer operating out of that state. He sold some real junk, mostly through e-bay. He kept changing his name, the shop name, and his location.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[PLDRIVE]

Kuntz & Company (no one knows Ford engines better! Top of the food chain)
Precision Race Engine (great customer service, full service shop)

[AL427SBF]

Good point on drive quality versus power output, radical builds look good on paper but you better like revs and poor street manners I looked at Engine Factory, started talking blocks and asked who their source was, never got an answer so I moved on.

[Prof]

You ask about the DFW area, so I will be as honest as possible in what I know.

Keith Craft in Arkansas: delivered to Plano easily (and I saved the sales tax!). Hard motor to break, great communication over the phone with the builder, superb "forever" warranty.

AER in Carrollton. Gotta poke around to get to private sales (big car show there on May 4th and I am sure you could drive away with it that day). Gonna be a late-model roller cam bottom end possibly set up optimally for EFI.

Wayne Calvert in Denton (drag racer). I do not have experience, but his name will undoubtedly come up in conversations. Ernie at ET will not get a good vote among Cobra owners, but he pulled together some mish-mash parts I had and the 351 dyno'd at 430 hp/450 tq. Motor going in a non-track car. Some local guys have blown his motors in a very short amount of time.

Then if you have no budgetary limits, Ken Barr (Garland) is at the top of the pile. The motor will last twice as long because it literally costs twice as much as anyone else. You would think that no one could possibly ask that kind of money for a motor, but he does. If money falls from trees around you, he's your man. And he's famous too.

Smiley's Racing will not come up in conversations, but let me mention how incredibly impressed I am with a 289-based 331 stroker they built for me. In Sherman TX, Smiley's has a small store with one of the best engine builders in the country. Problem is-Smiley's bread-and-butter SBC dirt stuff hides the deep talent. They built me a killer 331 for a price comparative to Ford Racing / Keith Craft. Meticulously clean shop, balancer-extraordinaire, not too busy to answer questions, definitely "seasonal" in production of their dirt track stuff. Occasionally will have a complete 351W long block built out for sale. 903-868-0016. Talk to the owner. I would buy there again in a heart-beat!

That's my experience with 8 engines I have had built in the DFW area in the last 10 years. Hope that helps.

Best,
Paul

[RICK LAKE]

Trent Ballew Trent theres a couple of things you should do before making the 2nd biggest decisionfor the car. Lets start with,
1. ball park power? what are you looking for? You can get a 400/400 motor that will last for years and basic maintainance. You could get a 427 stroker street motor that will do the same thing or make 600/600 and last a couple of years.
2. need to know what gear ratios in the trans and the rearend. This has a major effect of the drivibilty of the car cruising, parades, or track racing.
3. COST Your get what you pay for. You can geta a remanufactured motor for 3,500.00 or go full crazy in the $15k range built to the tilt.
4. Fuel system, are you looking at a Carb, 8 stack setup, multi carb, WEBERS, single throttlebody?
5. Warranty on the motor, how long and in writing. Last year at R&G saw a top of the line crate motor eatup a distributor gear. Car had couple hundred miles. Problems looked like a soft camshaft and the wrong gear on the distributor. Don't know what the final out come was for replacement of the motor with all the metal flakes.
6. 1 guy in the motor build group missing was Gessford machine. They have been building Ford motors for 40+ years. They are the only ones on the list with a machine shop of the year award in the US. I know that Keithcraft, Barry R, Survival, Brent B. and Tom all stand behind their motor builds. I can't answer for some of the others listed without a fight. Biggest thing I have heard is ABUSE and maintainance for failures of motors of owners and this is not true.
7. Home work, start googling some buildup of the 351. There are 50-100 builds over the last 25 years. See what you like and what the cost are.
8. Accusump add this to your list of things to buy. reasons are many. Perluber is the most important, no dry starts. Some guys believe in them and some guys don't. I believe with saving my motor twice. $400.00 dollars against $15,000.00- $20,000.00 saving a motor, I think it's a no brainer.
Soory for the long thread, tryed to cover alot of info and reasons why or why not to do. Good luck with the build. Rick L.

[trentballew]

Great info; I've already followed up with a couple of the suggestions. More than anything, it has solidified the need to do a lot of good research up front before making any costly decisions. I really appreciate it.

[Type 65 Coupe]

OOps,

[Varmit]

I've recently ordered a Keith Craft alum 482 FE based on the info here. I'm getting really anxious, another month to go, and I should have her up and running.....rockin and rollin!!!!!!!

[ERA2076]

I have a Engine Factory 351w in my shop. A#7 rod cap stud gave in yield and took out everything from number 7 back including breaking the cam. The engine had just under 8k miles on it. I pushed it fairly hard, but nothing like what would be done on a track. My engine was a "Cobra Special" supposed to have made 400 hp based on a parts list Edelbrock built and tested - heads, manifold, carb. They do not provide full documentation of their build and they do not use high quality components e.g. cam?

Mine had a stock Ford bottom end with a .060 over bore and I was very disappointed. It was a weak build with little or know attention to detail like using high grade fasteners.

The documentation that came with my car shows the previous owner asked for Dyno sheets. Engine Factory stated the HP rating was based from copying an Edelbrock design and it would have cost additional to have it dynoed so the owner declined. Did it make 400?

I am now having an engine built which is not an inexpensive endeavor, but I get to participate in part selection and the builder dynos his stuff. My car is an FIA - had I taken a little more time on how to proceed, I may have purchased a Ford Racing 345hp 302 - bolt on a set of Webers - run the crap out of it and be happy. The price is very attractive and it comes with a warranty.

Engine Factory - boo for me.

[CowtownCobra]

+1 for KC

[Bill Bess]

My two cents:
Check out Southern Automotive, Bill Parham builds only Fords and is an expert builder. My 428 FE has 18000 miles on it and runs perfectly, has alway started and ran..tons of power.
The first thing Bill will ask you is "how are you going to drive the car?", he will build it accordingly and provide you with a reliable and strong motor,plus a fair price and warranty. Nothing but praise for SA and the Parham's.

[Bartruff1]

I have had zero problems with my Ford Racing 351.. it can be serviced at any Ford Dealership and there is one nearly every 75 miles in North America....

They even have a warranty, and if you have a problem you can take it to the nearest dealer and it will be fixed in short order.

I cannot imagine taking weeks or months, pulling a motor out and shipping it off and getting it back to reinstall ...just my 2 cents.

It is very good advice to be absolutely honest about how you are going to drive the car 99% of the time. Nearly any combination of 300 hp and a 2500 lb car will be capable of street performance that only the most skilled driver would be able to approach. In my opinion drivability is the #1 priority.

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

They even have a warranty, and if you have a problem you can take it to the nearest dealer and it will be fixed in short order.

If you purchase it from Ford Racing you need to ship it back to them for the warranty repair. They pay shipping - but will bill you if they determine it's not a warranty item.

And yes, it is a bit of a pain to pull it out, crate it, ship it, uncrate it when it gets back and reinstall anything.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by dallas_

If you purchase it from Ford Racing you need to ship it back to them for the warranty repair. They pay shipping - but will bill you if they determine it's not a warranty item.

And yes, it is a bit of a pain to pull it out, crate it, ship it, uncrate it when it gets back and reinstall anything.

You learn something every day...I did not know that, and oddly enough neither did the local Ford Dealer Service Manager...no doubt if the occasion would have occured, we both would have been surprised.... sounds like you may have had some experience ?... I will apologize for the bad info...thanks Dallas....bart

[avdcav]

I think you shoud use the oppurtunity to build your own. Unless you actually attempting to
Race and actually be competitive. Lot of learning and lots of fun. You simply document what you want go to a quality machine shop and hire them as a consultant to assist you and plan your build And assist in procurement of parts .

First time I did this back in the day it was a blast " What a fond memory
Ohhh and he feeling of holding your new crank ,pistons and cam in your hand right out of the box is magical.



If you have the tools the drive and garge space why would you ever do it any other way.when your done you'll know that motor down to a casting flash in the lifter valley.

[charles roybal]

+2 for KC very happy w/ my 408w