Friendly "Grudge Match"

mr0077 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-09-2002, 06:09 PM

Hey guys, a friend has thrown down the gauntlet for a friendly grudge match (with "token" bet, of course), his very warm TransAm v. the Cobra...I need a set of slicks, and have some questions:
1. Can I use steel wheels, with Trigo adapters? If so, what kind of steel wheels and what mods to the wheels? Would an adapter be needed to mount the wheels on the Trigo knockoff center hub?
2. What size tires would be reasonable (appr. 500 flywheel hp on my car)? Where's the best source?
3. Anyone in the Houston area got a set they'd want to sell/loan/rent, mounted or not?
Thanks in advance...all comments welcome.

Cobra Dude · #2 (**permalink**) 06-09-2002, 07:09 PM

Sweet! Nothing can whoop a Cobra

, but just in case...

Not sure about the wheel adapter, but lightweight alum wheels (like Welds or Centerlines) preferred over steel. Get some 15's rims and choose the height of the slicks based on your rpm/gear at the finishline. Hookup will be your main problem -- if you have a live axle, you've probably got the common Cobra problem, and it'll be well worth your while to drop on a traction device like some southside bars. You don't even need the control arms themselves -- just the plates to lower the axle attach points.

High speed drag is a problem on the Cobra -- try to get a 1/8-mile race instead of a 1/4-mile.

Cheers,
-Neil.

Dennis Mosley · #3 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 07:06 AM

Almost sounds like Cobradude knows what he's talking about!!!

You might also want to get in touch with Charmmer, I think he has slicks for his Cobra. He might be able to add some knowledge.

Cobradude, is it true that Chad T dusted you in a little drag race during the TCC get together in Feb.

sorry I had to do it.

ERA600hp · #4 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 07:13 AM

Race him on paper!

Nobody get's hurt this way!!

Take the weight of his car and devide it by his hp to get his horse power to weight ratio, then do your's, no need to race and risk getting someone hurt!!

Cobra has the best HP to weight ratio, thats why they are so QUICK!!!

The Royal Family

Gary Morris · #5 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 07:37 AM

Just so you will know...this comes from one of the ERA masters, Mr Stacy Pendergrass who has just about done it all. When you put slicks on an ERA be prepared to possibly brake a few pieces in the Jag rear end. Stronger replacement pieces are available but the stock Jag won't handle VERY high horsepower on SLICKS!

Tulsa or Bust
Gary
ERA #291

Cobra Dude · #6 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 07:48 AM

DM> Almost sounds like Cobradude knows what he's talking about!!!

Woo-hoo! You mean I have you fooled too?

Yep, got "dusted". But at least I knew that I didn't have enough fuel....4000 rpms at full boost and pffft -- fell flat on its face. Wait till I'm done with the new fuel system though...

ERA600hp> Race him on paper! Nobody get's hurt this way!!

Buy an SUV instead. Nobody gets hurt that way too.

We're of course talking about legal racing on a track, right?

BTW, if you do have an IRS as GM suggests, then worry -- they're not the best thing for drag launches.

Cheers,
-Neil.

427Aggie · #7 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 08:19 AM

Ok this is from experience....I don't know how much you have in your car vs. your friend....but you better be prepared for the result of the race track...mine don't like'em...

Every time I get on the track (no comments from the Dallas group here) something breaks...it never fails...my car has basically told me that its not going to do the track thing...

As Gary said Stacy knows what you will break since he pulls if I remember 10's in the 1/4....slicks on these cars and you just better be ready for the bill that you will get....

Matt

mr0077 · #8 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 08:24 AM

I KNEW there was a dam#ed good reason I asked you guys...I am very NOT interested in bustin' my rear end...maybe I jes' buys my ticket and takes my chances (on street tires). I'll talk to Stacy and get his input...maybe my puny 500 HP won't break my (stock) rear end.
ERA600, the guy either won't or can't tell what his horsepower is, so we can't do the paper race...he supposedly runs in the 11's, so it's purty stout (according to the reports). It has no blower or nitros, but he's got a "built" auto and slicks, so I would have a problem out of the hole. I don't see see 11's or a serious problem.
From what you guys are saying, I think we'll tell him we'll go street legal v. street legal for money, or any way he wants for fun.
Thanks Guys

427Aggie · #9 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 08:26 AM

If he doesn't know what his horsepower is....just do the race at a dyno shop

Matt

ThePidler · #10 (**permalink**) 06-10-2002, 11:16 AM

If you're just wanting to see who's car is the beastiest, (?), then yea, dyno them both and race 'on paper' as the Royal Rhubarb' suggests, the dyno don't lie...

If it's about who's the best driver, then Bracket Race 'em. Take your cars, however each of you want to set them up, and make 3 or 4 passes each to get a 'baseline' ET. Then set the tree up so that if you both ran and reacted and drove perfectly, you would tie at the end, (if you break-out, you lose.) Then run 'em and see who's the best driver in a straight line. There's also the 'Slick Track' at Speedzone...

Just be careful, I really don't like reading tragic posts about members...

jrichard · #11 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 07:07 PM

You guys own hot-rods but want to race on a dyno or on paper?
what is that about?? I just don't understand. HP means nothing if you can't apply it. P/W ratios are joke in the real world if you can't get the rubber to grip and you can't launch. Go to a local dragstrip and have fun. Be careful, wear a helmet, gloves, and have an extinguisher handy and DRIVE your COBRA like it's supposed to be driven. You guys with 500+hp and putt around the boulevard are missing something special. bragging rights of HP are just b$ if you can't drive your car or are too scared to try. Some people show trailer queens at the meets and just want to show off the chrome. If it don't go, chrome it....look at every Harley ever built.

I've built and owned higher HP Toyota FJ40 Landcruisers than most of the cobras I see, but it'd be a joke to suggest a race on paper...or on the street, really.

Take the challenge. demand street tires for both cars. maybe clip the negative electrode on your plugs for extra spark, advance your timing (just a little) and use race gas, and KICK HIS
A$$!! And do 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5. Be a sport.

RACER X #99 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 07:21 PM

Ken,
What kind of race? Drag, Road course? If your freind has experience on a road course and you are a first timer, you are being set up.And what kind of Trans Am? A Pontiac Trans-Am or a Mustang Trans-Am race car If its a Pontiac street car you may beat him. If it's a Mustang racer you will be embarrased.On paper Cobras beat everything on the track they are also rans.

McCranky

John 550 · #13 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 07:58 PM

Trigo / addaptors are held on with threaded pins ,when removed your left with a typical rotor . The rims for "your car " are back cut .There could be an issue if you go wider . Don't drop the clutch out of fist gear , ERAs hook up way to fast ( having twisted off a few axles I know first hand ) other than that , you should not have a problem . What "these cars "lack in turns, shure make up with tork .

Cobra Dude · #14 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 08:04 PM

Have to agree with Jeff on a couple points here -- they're Cobras -- don't simulate the races on paper nor on dynos. There really is a LOT more to ET than just HP / W. If it were that simple, any engine sitting on an engine stand will whip any Cobra any day!

Stick with drag racing, do it on a track, and let the tech folks ensure you've met the safety reqs for the track.

BTW, not familiar with that Trans-AM, but one thing the GM did right on the Camaro/Trans-Am cars is the torque-arm rear suspension. Beware on road courses!

The street tire idea is good -- but get some BFG drag radials or similar, drop the pressure really low and you may want to secure the tire to the rim with some small screws.

One more thing.... want some real hi-octane fuel? Try this, but let it be officially known that I am not condoning this...

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html

Cheers,
-Neil.

mr0077 · #15 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 08:11 PM

Jrichard and RacerX, I think you guys have it right...if you don't do it in a race, it's just a little warm/hot air.
We are talking 1/4 mile, not road circuit, and a Pontiac Trans Am, not a Mustang. Trouble is, the closest 1/4-mile I know we can run at is San Antonio (my rollbar won't pass tech at Baytown). Sealy is a 1/8-mile track and I may be playing catchup, unless I get a he!! of a launch.
We'll see who wins in this "dance"...I'll let you know if it happens!

Hal Copple · #16 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 08:27 PM

I have a bit more than 50 quarter mile runs in my SPF. I enjoy running the Vettes and such. I rarely lose. And never to any Vette, by the way. But i started at about a 12.8, and eventually worked my way down, by tuning my launch, and short-shifting to second, and learning to just focus on my own lane. I eventually got to a consistent 12.2 with a best of 12.0. On street Goodyears, too.

If he runs slicks, that will be worth as much as .75 seconds, which is lot to make up with your better power to weight ratio, down the last half of the track. A pure drag car, arriving on a trailor, will be tough to beat.

Make him either drive to the track on his slicks, (which he likely won't do), or run on his street tires.

He is playing is strengths to your weakness, which is your launch traction. Plus his drag experience is worth close to a second in ET.

Remember, the published contemporay drag times from the '60's in these cars were about 12.5-13 seconds. Without lots of drag modifications, you will be good to go this fast.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Hal "The Road Rogue" Copple

Jamo · #17 (**permalink**) 06-11-2002, 08:38 PM

Don't know if there's a sanctioning body running the drag strip you're gonna be at--but most will NOT allow wheel adaptors (or spacers for that matter). Take em off if you're gonna run REAL slicks...

I'd also think of about some 80/20 shocks up front, and pump up the front tires to about 45-50lbs.

Practice on a practice tree! Don't know what your's or the TransAm guys experience are, but you can certainly pick up some time right off the bat!

Practice launches on the slicks--totally different then boiling street tires. If you're really worried about the rearend, I'd suggest Drag Radials so you can slip a little on takeoff.

Now--go get this guy!

grumpy · #18 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 01:05 PM

Mr0077,
Just remember, sticky slicks/shortwheelbase cars that hook will stand up so quick.....well unless you've rode a wheelie out in a car don't start. After your wet/burnout just throttle out of the hole and shortshift, no 3000# car will beat you, he would have to run in the 9's to do it.

Grumpy