It Runs!....sort of

[RockSnake]

After 2 years and 8 months of building, I was able to start the car the morning. I couldn't keep it running more than about 30 seconds, but it sounded pretty good...no valve clatter, or other negative engine noises.

I am using the Holley Pro-Jection (which I bought almost 2 years ago), and am getting some anomolous readings on the computer. If anyone has experience with this unit, I would REALLY appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.

David

[BT SNAKE]

Dave,
I have the Edelbrock Pro flo 3500 series on my car and it's the best ! Your system is pretty similar to mine. Once you start fooling around with the unit you will get accustom to it pretty quick. I found myself reading the manual alot at first. Then it started to sink in a bit. Good luck with it, Im sure you're gonna like it.

Hersh

[Back in Black]

I will soon have the finished car in my possession. (Oct 1st) I am a former computer R & D technician for fortune 500 companies, and therefore will be tweaking it (the programming) for better performance.

Don't feel bad, my manufacturer has not gotten my EFI to even work yet ! The motor has been started with a carb, to verify operational status...it is possible that I will have to finish the EFI programming myself, and get the EFI operational...as soon as I receive delivery, I will begin to study the Holley software...soon will be a guru.. I can help out then if it's similar to your system....mine uses the Commander 950 module and a 1000 cfm throttle body, 36 lb injectors.

BiB

[RockSnake]

I guess I was a little vague. The ECU "works", but the readings that show on my laptop suggest problems, either with the connections, or from the factory.

For example, the rev-limiter is kicking-in at about 2500 rpm, because the ECU thinks the engine is turning over 6400. As a "technogeek" myself, I have confirmed that all of the computer settings (that the manual identifies) are accurate.

Also, both the air temp sensor and water temp sensor seem to run 12 - 15 degrees below reality (ambient temperature).

Just looking for someone who has been through this.

[mustangmendez]

Wont run ,I would put a regular carb on it just to know everything in the eng. is ok .You may have a serious vacuum leak ,Cam to big ,rockers to tight or trimming off .I do believe that your FI system should have a regular program to get it up and running .I also believe that computer FI systems work great on stock to mild engs. but IN MY OPINION carb is the way to go simple good performance .I run a 1050 Dominator on a mild 460 and idles at 750 rpms w/85 jets in the front and 92 in the rear dual 50cc pumps and a Accell dist NO MSD getting 13 mpg .Good luck there are so many iffy .
Mustang Mendez

[Cobra Chuck]

Rocksnake

The first start is the most exciting, I just fired up about a month ago and I am still on a high. I had some trans problems, sorted them out and fired up again yesterday, what a rush. I will be out for some cruisin today. I have a LS 427 that I purchased in March 2001 and I am just now getting it finished up. I have had a pretty good experience with the Lone Star guys. Dennis is a gem and Steve (owner) aint to bad either. I am still working on the body and should be ready for some paint next week. I am also using a 302, Edelbrock performer RPM manifold, heads and 1407 carb. MSD 6AL ignition, Ford Racing roller cam and roller rocker arms, Moroso windage tray and 8 quart pan, remote filter and oil cooler. I upgraded to the Aldan single adjustable shocks on the 4 link rear suspension.


I hope you get your FI problems sorted out quickly. Is you fuel pressure staying up consistently and are you using a fuel tank fuel pump?

Chuck

[427Aggie]

David,

I can't remember if it was John Ross or Jim Woodard that tried the same setup on their Lonestar and tossed it...I have not heard many good things about the holley projection...

Your best bet is to just go with carb till you get everything sorted out and running good then try the holley again if you want...trust me stay simple (god why didn't I listen when I bought webers)

Hope to see you at our next meeting...you can find about 10 guys that will show up to help you figure it out without fail...we spent all day yesterday adjusting my valves and getting another guys carb working right.

If you need an 850 to use to get it running let me know I have a couple of spares in the garage

Matt

[RockSnake]

Thanks to all for the advice. Over the last few factory cars, I have really begun to appreciate the easy starting and reliability of FI. Plus, those that get it to work seem to love it.

I have questions into the Holley tech line...hoping that helps. Didn't make much progress today, except learning what doesn't work.

I think I have narrowed the main problem down to the Throttle Position Sensor. It can swing 20 points, with the throttle closed, and engine off.

I usually manage to make about one Texas meeting a year. Too many distractions...where do the "royal family" live anyway? Some events happen at their place, but I haven't seen address or directions.

Thanks for the offer of the 850, but that sounds way too big for my 302.

[JRoss]

Hey RockSnake,

I ran the Holley Projection 900 for about 2 years and would never recommend it to anyone.

Which type do you have? Are you tuning using the control box or a laptop. If you have a laptop there is a section that will help you set your TPS. If you have the control box you must set it by voltage output.

Beware: If you have the control box and save the current map the rev limiter is set to 2x the running RPM when saved. might you have been at 1250 when you pressed save? If you have the laptop there is a section to set the RPM limit.

I am by no means an expert but unfortunatly I have messed with this stuff quite a bit as I had to run an open loop with the Holley. Shoot me an email if you want and I would be glad to do what I can to help out.

If you have the hook up for the laptop but do not have on I still have the holley program loaded on mine (if it still boots) and could let you borrow it.

Just in case I have a slightly used Holley 750 w/elec choke. I'll make you a good deal on it.

John

[RockSnake]

Thanks, I may drop you a line. I have the Di version, and am watching things through the laptop. As of last night (using a volt meter), I am fairly convinced the primary problem is with the Throttle Position Sensor.

With the engine off, and throttle at idle position, the TPS showed 1 volt. Then, I worked the throttle (engine still off), and returned to the idle stop, and it showed .5 volts. Then I cranked the engine, and it went to zero volts, and displayed "BAD" on the laptop.

I have questions in to Holley, but no response yet. Given the events of the last year, I just can't afford to walk away from $1300 in FI. But who knows what I'll hear from Holley.

[RockSnake]

Does anyone know a short for reaching Holley? All reps are busy on the telephone number, they don't respond to email, and a fax is equally ignored. I can't even ORDER a replacement part without tech support.

[Alan Schup]

The Pro-Jection is GREAT... instant performance acceleration and economy too!!! While many people have had problems with the Holley Pro-Jection, including myself at first, I finally got hold of Holley myself and through lengthy dis-"cuss"-ions, got the answer. I now have absolutely no problem with the Holley Pro-Jection and recommend it. The secret is to have the O2 sensor on the header no further than 10 inches from the engine, and use the O2 sensor with AutoChart software to be able to set things slightly rich when open-loop. AutoChart uses the O2 sensor to create a stoemetric MAP, then you can make it slightly rich overall. http://www.autochart.com/
Even though only one cylinder is being sensed this way, it is better than having the O2 sensor at the side-pipes where the exhaust gasses are too cold to get an accurate reading. The colder the O2 sensor, the richer the fuel mix.
Give me a call and I will come by and tune things up. I am surprised that Lone Star Classics did not forward you to me.

[RockSnake]

Allan, I think maybe you are the one I met that convinced me to go with pro-jection. At least, from the description of your car you sound familiar. And, I would LOVE to have someone with experience look at this...to confirm my evaluation.

I didn't mention this to the LoneStar guys. The last time I did, I was met with rolled-eyes, and a 'boy did you make the wrong decision' kind of attitude.

Thanks!
David

[cobra400hp]

I have the projection 900 on a 390FE, probably overkill, and I wouldnt change it for the world. All the shows that I go to, when its time to leave all those carbed cars are turning and turning and turning... Mine fires right off. If I can be of any help let me know. The other guys have their reasons for loving it and hating it. If it works for you then go with it.... now I know that I have had my share of bad luck but hey, thats part of hot roddin', right?

later
Paul

[RockSnake]

Well, it took four emails, one fax, and three telephone calls, but I finally got through to Holley tech support. A very nice fellow named Mike confirmed my suspicions, and has me on the way to a new Throttle Position Sensor. Currently, the engine starts on the first kick (I actually started the thing by trying to just "bump" the starter)...hopefully it will soon be able to keep running. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. And apologies to Holley for all of my angry thoughts (but they really need to be easier to reach).
David

[RockSnake]

I installed the replacement Throttle Position Sensor last night. All my F.I. woes seem to be over. She starts easily, idles rock-steady, and responds crisply to throttle.
David

[cobra400hp]

I guess we might have to come over saturday and see this for ourselves. are you going to be around?

[RockSnake]

Unfortunately, the car will be on a trailer Saturday...unless you want to come over before we hit the road.

[cobra400hp]

you just got her started and shes a trailer queen already. Unless your taking it to the Dyno?

[RockSnake]

Let's just say some modifications are needed that I can't do in my garage.