comp cams and my fia

paul cass · #1 (**permalink**) 03-12-2003, 02:56 PM

hey guys
well the fia is down for a while. to update those that i didn't get to see in austin i'll list what has happened.
over the winter months i decided to re-do and repaint the body. decided to refresh the engine while the cobra was in the paint shop. added a new cam from comp cam. it is a special order cam with no listings in their books. so i had to depend on comp cams for advice. poblem is that i spoke with three different people. one seemed to know his business and the other two didn't as it turns out. i ended up with the wrong lifters and no retainers. i finally got the correct lifters and was told the mumbers to look for locally to get the retainers and screw in studs. finally the engine went back togethor. finished breaking in the engine the day before our texas cobra club event in austin. about 15 miles into our cruise i hear all this banging in the engine and pull off to the side of the road. after removing the valve cover i find that one of the rocker studs has boken off. a chase vehicle is kind enough to trailer us back to where i was staying. called comp cams when i get back and it turns out that the studs were for a stock engine. i needed the high tech studs. eventually i get those from comp cam and after installation i take the car on a local cruise. i start to here a tapping noise in the engine after a few miles that starts to get worse as we reach our destination. after cooldown i check the valve train and see that the cylinder that had the broken stud has no lift on one of the vavles. i disconnect that cylinder and limp back home on 7 cylinders. after opening up the engine and removing the cam i find that the lifter apparetly broke and ground off the lobe on the cam. although the oil filter caught the majority of the metal shavings some made it through out the engine. now i get to spend my spring break rebuilding the engine. i've talked with comp cam about what happened and will see what help they are in making up for the wrong parts and associated problems. at least the paint and body work looks great. now if i can just get a chance to drive the car i'll be happy. not a good month.
paul

Hotfingrs · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2003, 03:13 PM

Don't count on Comp Cams for any help, been there, done that. All they care about is moving merchandise out the door, right or wrong, and their warranty is once it leaves our place, it's your problem. Ultradyne has done my last three cams for me.

kountzecobra · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2003, 06:51 PM

Paul, sorry to hear your situation. Also sorry to hear about Comp Cams customer service problems. I have used them many times in the last 25 years and always had excellent results with service and parts. I guess they are going the way many other companies are, using minimum wage employees that are not properly trained. It really sucks! Hope you get everything fixed and get that FIA back on the road quickly.

mustangmendez · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2003, 09:14 PM

Crap service why why that **#% really gets under my skin When I dealt with parts I always help with the right parts the first time and there is just no reason for that kind of service out of anyone ! Paul you hang in there and do what you have to do thats all we can do now days .
Tony

HighPlainsDrifter · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2003, 09:59 PM

Paul,
Sorry to hear your trouble.
Not knowing the cam specs is trouble. You need to check piston to valve clearance and valve springs for coil bind with a high lift cam.Check guideplate/pushrod alignment. I'm sure one of these do not have enough clearance, that's probably why you broke a rocker stud. Check the valve to see if it's bent, the rocker also. Without the cam card[spec sheet] you can't degree the cam in to make sure it's in the correct spot in relation to the crank.
Good Luck , check everything.
Perry.

mustangmendez · #6 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 07:14 AM

Good Point Perry but also your roker Arm tip to valve stem connection should be ck as well there you can ck for binding .
I am sure Paul cked all this stuff I belive the problem lied in the parts that were sold to him were incorrect combination due to the wrong advise given to him .

Tony

paul cass · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 08:30 AM

perry and tony
everything was ok with the specs for rocker arm clearance, push rod length, binding, etc. no problems in this area. i think the problem was that the new valve springs were much stronger than the ones i had before, the lift on the exhaust side was higher and the stock rocker studs couldn't handle the torque. also i wasn't able to get too much of the thread on the studs to screw on the lock nuts. however one of the guys i talked with said that everything would work. yeah, right. the new studs are about 30% stronger and a little bit longer. the stud broke on the exhaust valve. with the combustion in the cylinder and no where for the gases to go it put a lot of pressure in that cylinder. i'm just guessing but i think all of the banging around broke the bottom off of the lifter on the intake side and then it ground off the lobe on the cam. although the engine didn't run very long after this it was enough to spread some fine metal particles everwhere in the engine. haven't taken off the heads yet to see if any damage to pistons, but i did drop the oil pan and look at one of the main cap bearings. didn't look that bad. i'll know more after i complete the disassemble next week. before i send in the parts to comp cam i will take photos for my records. we'll see if this works out in a professional way.
paul
ps i've used comp cams for about 20 years with no problem in the past.

Widowmaker · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 08:35 AM

Your experience with Comp Cams is quite similar to my own. Being a slow learner, I went through three different cams from them at the recommendation of two different persons in their tech department in an attempt to reach 6500 rpms. Regardless of what they tell you or what is represented in their catalog, they are unable (in my experience) to provide a combination of hydraulic roller cam, springs and lifters to achieve this level of performance. I finally went with the recommendations of the folks at Anderson Ford Motorsport and am very pleased with the results. I have no intention of ever doing business with Comp Cams again.
Ted Cummings

Mr.Fixit · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 08:45 AM

Their product is just fine. It is not the duty of the cam grinder to teach you about all the aspects of building a high performance motor and making sure your combination of parts is compatable. Their responsibility ends if they can provide you with a cam that is ground reasonably close to what the card says, and give you specs for what lifters and how much spring to run.

paul cass · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 09:45 AM

mr fixit
i agree with what you are saying. what created my problems were a combination of things. the gentleman that advised me on what cam to use for my purposes wasn't available when i called back for questions a couple of times and the guys that answered as it turns out didn't know what they were talking about. i've been able to talk with the first guy since the stud broke and he has been very helpful. hopefully all will work out.
paul

stuck · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 10:39 AM

Damn, that sucks! I hope I'm not in the same boat...I can't afford to rebuild a motor right now....Oh well, I'll have one big paper weight!

HighPlainsDrifter · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 12:48 PM

Paul,
There is also the possibility that simple things didn't work; enough cam lube on the lobes[I like crane cams lube] prime engine and start immediatly, keep revs up 1,800 to 2,200 rpm for the first 20 minutes to break the cam/lifters in. On very aggressive cams you can break them in with lighter valve springs then change the valve springs after the engine is run in, this will save alot of wear.
Good Luck,
Perry.

paul cass · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 01:39 PM

perry
i asked comp cam about using a lighter spring to break in the cam and the guy that has been very helpful suggested i not do that and instead use the regular spring without the inner spring. he did say to run the engine for 25- 30 minutes, re install the inner spring and then run for another 15 minutes. the initial break in was for about 20-25 minutes. i'll try the longer system this time. i think everything would have worked out just fine if the stud had been matched to the cam in the first place. by the way, the revs never exceeded 3,500 rpm's when the stud broke. after installing the new studs i ran the ingine up to 6,500 rpm's with no problems. just didn't know that the cam was being eaten away by the broken lifter. engine comes out tonight and if possible i'll check for damage before i leave for our spring break trip. next week when i get back i'll start on the repairs. i'll post the results.
ryan, i may try to send pictures to you to see if you can post here.
paul

stuck · #14 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 02:47 PM

yeah, go ahead and send em...

joe garland · #15 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 04:32 PM

Ryan, If you are coming to the March meeting, bring the cam, and we will check it out. High Plains Drifter is correct about what he advises on the lube and rpm's. This is super important! Many times it is overlooked. We'll get it sorted out one way or another without spending a fortune!

mustangmendez · #16 (**permalink**) 03-13-2003, 07:56 PM

Hey Ryan I have a good rebuilt long Block 351 HO for sale !!!!!!
Dont tell Blake

T