Yellow Rose Classic.....the dark side

[Gary Morris]

Most of you that know me are aware that I belong to several clubs, one being the North Texas Mustang Club, which is one of the most known and respected Mustang clubs in the nation. Each year this club puts on the Yellow Rose Classic car show to raise funds that we donate to various charities and people in need through out the year. This show goes off each year pretty much without a hitch due to the tremendous support from volunteers within the club, I being one of them. I have competed in this show in the past when I still owned ERA#291. Just the thrill of being there and being able to talk and visit with other gearheads is priceless in my book. I have shown my car when there were as few as 3 cars in the class to as many as 16 cars in the class, the year I had the privilege to show with my fellow Texas Cobra Club brothers, which even today is still talked about among the other members of the NTMC. Will we ever do it again? Who knows. The bar has been raised so high in our group that the competition is high. Even so it is always a thrill to see one of our brothers be rewarded for their effort as most of us at one time or another has helped out in some way…..well except I don't do electrical and ya'll all know why. The years I have won a "class award" or a "class winner" award was always a bonus as the fellowship means more to me than anything else and to me that's in part what makes the Texas Cobra Club so special. Our people are second to none and will always help a fellow brother.
This show is divided into two major classes. One being "street driven" which makes up probably 95+ percent of the show, and the other being the "show class". The ONLY difference between the 2 classes is that in the show car class you are awarded points for your undercarriage. Nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes cars 5,10, even 15 or 20 years old may have as little as a few hundred miles on them, as witnessed by Jim Mango's Boss 429's.
At our monthly meeting last night we received many, many Kudos from the participants and spectators alike for what a wonderful show it was and how well it was ran and organized. This made me feel very proud to be part of it and only hope that maybe in the future the Texas Cobra Club will again be a part of it. We did however receive an e-mail from one disgruntled participant that I wanted to share in hopes that we can all learn something from it. Evidently this person felt he "deserved" a trophy for his efforts and asked that rules be changed to insure his odds at future events. He talks about "playing the game" I guess you could call it that. IF all you are concerned about is a $10.00 trophy then there are some creative ways of doing it. I have seen it before as I'm sure all of you have at one time or another. Too many people in your class? Well, clean up you under carriage and go in the show class. Still too much competition? Slap some decals on it, place a helmet in the seat and go be in the race car class. I have been showing cars for a long time and believe me I have seen it all done. If that trophy means more to you than the fellowship and enjoyment derived from just being there, I think you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
I know we have as many waxers in the group as we have racers but I can only hope that we never take a show as serious as the participant that sent the e-mail listed below.

I will not say which class this e-mail pertains to, as it would cover just about any class in the show. Our cars are something we truly treasure but let's not let them get in the way of what matters most!

Here is the e-mail:

If there is a process for a formal protest, please notify me as I would like to make such a
protest. I am a fairly easy-going, but after sleeping on what happened, my emotions have grown worse over this. This is twice in a row that I have been burned in the Yellow Rose car show.

I lost out twice in the street driven class to cars that have less than one mile on the odometer. Not kidding….brand spanking new cars less than one week old only driven onto and off of a trailer competing in the street driven class. It is just not fair that non-driven show class cars hours directly straight out of the shop are allowed to enter into the street driven class. I spent hundreds of dollars and weeks of cleaning up my car to be cleaner than when I won best of class in a previous Yellow Rose show, to not so much as even get an honorable mention this year. When I brought this up to the judge for the class my car was entered, he said "you have to know how to play the game"----which I think is grossly unfair. The judges I brought this up to during the show were not concerned and did not forward my observation. There were no cars entered in the (BLANK) show car class to form such a class. All of the non-driven (BLANK) cars were all in the street driven class!!! How could my 5 year old, 5400 mile street (and track) driven car compete with those that are two days old from the manufacturer with less than 1 mile on the odometer? To be fair, please add rules so that new low-mileage cars (under 100 miles, less than a month or two old as an example) cannot be entered into the street-driven class. Please ask for mileage and age on the entry form, and if a very low mileage and a new car, confer with the owner to see if they shouldn't be entering their car in the Show class instead of the Street-driven class. It is vastly unfair that for two straight years now, the Best of Class for street-driven category was given to a car that is undriven….less than a week old and under 2 miles on the odometer (one of which arrived trailered just hours old out of the manufacturer and never driven with 0.2 miles on the odometer). The owner of this years' street driven (BLANK) "Best of Class" award admitted that his car arrived a few days ago directly from the manufacturer and has only been driven once around the block. In conclusion, I wish to file this formal complaint/protest to the organizers of the show that they knowingly and willfully allowed non-driven cars to enter into the street-driven classes and be awarded Best of Class for street-driven.

Ya'll have a real good weekend!!

Gary Morris
Founding Member of The Texas Cobra Club
Vice President: Shelby Cobra Association of Texas
Active Member: North Texas Mustang Club

[jrussell]

Gary,
I remember my first entry at the Yellow Rose four years ago when we had 16 Cobra Replicas at our corner. My car was one year old and had- at that time only 4600 miles on it, with a LOT of that being track time! I had a wonderful time and I displayed my car on the bare concrete- as ALL of the TCC members agreed to do before hand at our meeting, and only three of us actually did. I learned a lot, had an absolute BLAST, but I didn't win a trophy then, and have yet to win one! I didn't care then, and with over 13,000 miles on my car I still don't care!
We all know there are "racers" and "waxers", but there are also "drivers", "show queens" and "whiners"! I bought my car to drive and enjoy and I believe those I consider my friends and most that know me would admit I get the most out of my car as far as the ownership experience goes. I would not change anything I have done if I started over, and I have never felt someone or some event "owed" me a trophy just because I paid an entry fee, because that is utterly rediculous! I do have my share of Trophies, and if I am awarded one in the future I will accept it with grace, but my true trophy comes when one of my family says "Hey, lets go for a ride in the Cobra"!
That is why I bought it, that is how I get my enjoyment from it, and I truly feel sorry for those that base their happiness on a small piece of marble and molded plastic!
So be it, that's why there is Chocolate and Vanilla, and there will always be some "whiners" in every group, but they seem to keep to themselves and we normally don't see them very often anyway.
Sorry I missed the event this year, but Lyndsie was in a Volleyball Tournament and this is her Senior year is HS, and family comes first! I will see you all next year!
John Russell
Secretary of S.C.A.T
Founding member of the Texas Cobra Club- and THE ONLY MEMBER TO ATTEND EVERY TCC EVENT WITH THE SAME CAR!!!
(I think ) If not, I bet I hear about it!

[392cobra]

The first two years,'02 & '03,I had my Cobra I went to A LOT of car shows.

This year I have been in 1, AER. If my Cobra is ready in time I will certainly go to the show Colleen is putting on.
With both shows it is about being with fellow TCC members and helping a worthy cause.

I saw the light and changed my ways when I started noticing way too many people were taking getting a trophy WAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

Gary,I knew the contents of the e-mail you posted looked familiar.

" Results are...
There was one AC Cobra from AER that took the Shelby/AC Cobra Class Award, being the only Cobra in that class.

Of the "Cobra Replica Class": Doug Sherar's brand spanking new nearly undriven "off the showroom floor" Superformance took Best of Class and Best of the Cobras. Mark Bartle's LoneStar Classic (that took best of class last year while under 1 mile usage) took 2nd place this year (Class Award).

I walked away totally empty handed this year --- my 5 year old LoneStar Classic did not get so much as an honorable mention. The judges sheets will be mailed this time (instead of handed out after the show) so I can only speculate the results --- my Cobra was cleaner with better paint than years past when I won awards, but now has minor bends in the radiator due to being driven thousands of miles and on the track."

[Doug I]

I can see where this email author is coming from.

First - I don't own a car yet.

Second - I wouldn't enter any show with the sole goal of getting a trophy. It wouldn't even be a goal really at all. As Gary said it's about the people you meet. Several years ago I won a trophy for my plane, but I didn't even know it was entered in the competition. The judges couldn't find me to ask if I wanted it judged - so they did it anyway.

Now .... competition is about a level playing field. I'd be a little put out if I'd entered in a street driven class and there were brand new cars in the same class. Personally I think the Judges attitude, as portrayed in the email, came across to me as somewhat condescending.

I had this same situation in judging aircraft at shows. In that situation we had a class for new planes and a class for flown planes. It was always an issue as to where the line was drawn between the two.

It's always a sticky issue - and one I'm sure will be kicked around for as long as there are shows.

[jrussell]

Doug,
Lets suppose, for sake of argument, someone won a trophy with his brand new car when there were other older, driven cars in his class. A few years later, he objects to the same thing.
Would you find that a bit hypocritical or not, or should he be allowed to have it both ways?
I am curious here, and my car was brand new once, but even when it was brand new I bought it TO DRIVE, and indeed my son & I drove it back to Dallas from Chalmette after picking it up from my friend, Doug Reed. I would not trade that experience for any 8 foot tall trophy in this world!
Also, I doubt the judge in question actually was quoted "verbatum", but was taken out of context. Remember, judges are car owners also, but are governed by the guidelines set by the group.
John Russell

[Gary Morris]

From this same show I could show you concours correct 35+ year old cars that are driven more than 5400 miles in 5 years that would score higher than anything brand new just rolling off the showroom floor.

Most of us, myself included, have competed at some time with people who have newer cars or newer restorations or more money. We all have to realize that anytime you enter a car in a show and shine judged show that you have to be prepared to be beaten, especially when you have won your class before. A newer car or a car with a newer paint job has an advantage, yes. If you don't like it, get a new paint job or whatever it takes to keep it fresh if winning is your priority. It accomplishes the same thing . Would this participant argue with that?

Gary

[kevinR]

just like in a race - not everyone can finish first.

but then i remember this prayer:

LORD, grant me the serenity to accept the fact that i can't pass them all,

the courage to pass most...

and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those who refuse to get the hell out of my way.

amen

[Doug I]

As I said this can be a sticky subject.

John - no argument here, I would think it hypocritical of someone to enter a competition in a certain manner and then complain later about people doing the same, if that was what they did delibrately. As I read it, to me it appeared that he hadn't done it, but he could just as easily have done so. Was his car new when he won ? - we don't know.

When I was judging planes we'd try not to let this situation happen. If a plane was 'new' it was judged against other new planes. The problem we had was in deciding when a plane was new and when it wasn't. We'd usually talk with the owner to make sure they were happy with our choice as to 'new' or 'not new' if there was a grey area.

I don't know the classes/rules/guidelines here in the US for carshows - maybe the brand new cars don't have a choice as to class ?

If, if, I was entering a carshow with a brand new car in the 'driven' class I wouldn't have a problem with the judges changing it to a 'show' class due to it's lack of age. If they didn't then I'd hope they would discount it's lack of age when judging it against the older cars.

I also agree John about the judge being quoted in the email. That's why I said as portrayed in the email. It is easy to report something and totally change the context without realising it's been done. Unless we were there we have to bear that in mind.

Gary - the way our score sheets were set up a plane with a totally new paint job could be at a disadvantage when being judged against planes with 'flown-in' paint. We'd score paint repairs as part of the total. A plane might score 8/10 on repairs and or touch-ups while the totally new paint might score 3/10.

Judging can be a lonely job.

When I get my car and when it goes to a show if the judges want to look at it, fine, if they don't, just as fine If being judged was an extra fee above the entry then I'd probably pass, unless I had a reason to enter.

regards
Doug I

[427Aggie]

I have to get in here and say my piece on this.

First - If you dont' like the way a show is run then don't go...period...end of story...this person was not a member of the club and wants to *****? give me a freaking break! This person shows up once a year to this function otherwise we never hear from them.

Ok now that thats out of my system.....in a Judged (Not by the general public) show...the cars have 3 classes really...street, show and race -

Street Judge the car but don't look under it...thats the rule...period end of story...I have been to yellow rose and lost 3 times....why..because I don't wire loom my wires in my engine compartment...and because the paint has been outside the lines on my tires...is it fair that my tires don't come painted so I have to do it and get counted off on and others don't...HELL NO..its my choice to paint it and I don't like wire loom on my wires so you gets what you gets.

Show class means they crawl all up and under that car...you better have either trailered it everywhere or had one hell of a detail crew because they will find dirt...and miss alighned bolts (yes I have heard of a 1st vs 2nd coming down to the bolts being aligned)

Race Class - Car is raced - I have seen people put there cars in this class because no one else was in it for their car and they new they would get a trophy...woohoo...

its 10 dollars of plastic come on if you ego needs it that bad you got a problem.

I am going to be completely politically incorrect because alot of the time I hold it back.

If you don't like the results they get F(*&#$ing lost and don't come back.....its a big world and no one is forcing you to be there...if you want to win then you better step it up and start bringing in an either completely redone car or a new one every year because alot of the people at judged shows are there to WIN and win at all cost...I mean for god sakes some of these guys have hundereds of thousands of dollars in their cars and they never see the outside of the trailers but for a few hours...

I know a couple that thats all their GT500 see's...the GT350 is to drive sometimes!!!!!!!!!!

I am so sick of people whinning when they don't get what they feel they deserve and believe that the rules should be changed for them....your acting like a freaking 2 year old and just like most of the 20 years olds now days.

THat job is too hard...I want something that is easy but I want to make $50,000 a year...I can't do that it requires work...GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS AND WORK AT IT....life is hard and life is full of disappointments...I will say it again GROW UP.

Doug none of this was directed at you Just at the letter...ok now I can relax.....................

Matt

[kevinR]

gig 'em matt

[James Baldwin]

I remember when we had 16 +/- Cobras at Yellow Rose a few years ago. I think most of us were there to just hangout with each other in an air conditioned placed with our cars

Also, what I really remember most about the show, was taking the lawn chairs from one Cobra members booth to another. With every stops, you would notice the same thing - the people that would walk by and just stare at the cars, as if to say "I wish I had one of those". Everyone here has had those people look at their cars in that way.

As long as YOU are happy with YOUR car... what else matters? The many people who oggle over your car on the streets or at shows is just an added bonus.

[Dennis Mosley]

My 2 cents before I leave the country for a bit...too far to feel the flames

The solution seems simple. IF it's about socializing, charity and enjoying the people, then leave the trophys and the judgnig at the store where you bought them. Get together like we do in Austin, laugh, drink and enjoy yourselves. You guys didn't know it but there has been a contest in Austin every year...I win every year (even the year before my car was done) because I'm the judge...I just keep forgeting to tell you guys about it

NOW, if it's billed as a "judged" car show just make sure everyone plays by the same rules. If it's a driving class, better have some miles on it. IF it's a show class...better not have any dirt on it.

I personally like the shows that are about people better than the ones about trophys so those are the ones I usually attend because they are more fun.

Matt if you are going to color outside the lines let me bring my niece up there. She's 5 and has learned to color in the lines pretty well.

[Mrs 66 Snake]

In the last 6 weeks I've been to more car shows than our Cobra has in the last 2 yrs, as I've made the rounds with flyers for the car show.

I've seen large shows, small shows, lowrider/import friendly shows, Corvette heavy shows etc. The one thing I've noticed is that the people who are having the best time are the ones their with their buddies.

NOT the ones who are so concerned about winning that it looks like that coveted trophy is shoved so far up their behind that they'd never be able to smile.

[jwoodard]

know who this cry baby is and realize he is not a contributing nor active member of TCC, let's just take his whining for what it is and move on.
He has demonstrated by his actions he is not a brother of the hood, so I say, give me your T.S. card and I'll punch it!

[hey,littlecobra]

alright, Jim, I'll take the bait....

what is a "T.S." card, and how will you punch it?

I like my nice trophy. I got one. That's all I wanted. One. (besides the one I bought for a buck at party city )
It's in the garage, collecting dust with the rest of the "shrine" stuff, (as my buddy calls it)

So, the folks that are in it for the trophy need to go to car shows where their Cobra is the only Cobra at the show, so they automatically win the class! Honest winner. No other entries, but who needs to know that??!!!


Kristen P.S. I can hardly wait.... (called Keith Craft today... gonna visit next week )

[Doug I]

time sheet ?

[jwoodard]

T. S. stands for "tuff sh*t" card. I must be dating myself as this expression has been around for ages.

I would punch it with one of those little hand held single hole punches like I had as a young man collecting for the newspapers I delivered house to house. I would provide my customer with a punched receipt indicating the number of weeks they had paid for. You have probably seen them used by railroad conductors when they come around on a train and punch your ticket.

Anyway, it's just a metaphor, sort of meant to antagonize the person to whom it's directed.

[hey,littlecobra]

when I was in jr. high (now they call it Middle school...), I rode the DTS (Dallas Transit System) to school, and home again. We bought "bus cards" that the driver punched with a funny shaped hole puncher, to show it was legally obtained, etc. So, no, you aren't "dating" yourself too much! We are all right there with ya, or right behind, anyway. About 10 kids caught the bus just a block or two from our homes, and actually it was kinda fun! Now I don't think DART would even begin to service the DISD kids- ours were charter buses, that only went to our school. Each jr. high/high school had them in Dallas. Guess that was a loonngg time ago....
Anyway, back to the original thread, I was planning on going to the YRC, but just couldn't fit it in with weekend guests. I had heard YRC was a "tough" show, but yeah, if ya can't handle losing, then don't enter! At AER there were like 200 trophies, and if ya'll remember I didn't win one. So what? Went to party city and bought my own! Had it on the hood at the White Rock get together. It's all in fun, and if somebody takes it too seriously, then find something else to do with all that seriousness. I have to be serious so much in my life, that with this forum and CC stuff, it's nice to just have fun. And to be by myself having fun. Oh well. I digress...

Vrroomm. Vrroomm!! Here I come....!!!
Kristen
ps. can't believe I didn't get the TS thing; one of my favorite phrases!

[392cobra]

"So, no, you aren't "dating" yourself too much! We are all right there with ya, or right behind, anyway." - Kristen

Y'all must be WAY BEFORE my time,I guess.
I don't remember any of that stuff.

Maybe the 1960's had something to do with it ?

[Mrs 66 Snake]

collecting for the newspapers I delivered house to house

Yeah, Jim no idea about that. We've got a lady who tosses them thru her car window (hoping to hit the right yard) and I get bills in the mail.


And I'll fess up to being a bit on the competitive side. After our first AER loss, I told Alan we needed to get the underside of our hood painted so it looked more "finished." We did get a 1st place trophy at the very next show, but now I honestly believe that had more to do with the $4 blue shifter knob Alan found at AutoZone that the shiny blue and white paint job. That settled my butt back into place about how over the top this stuff can get.