Formula 1 USGP watching again at the flying pig

[Trevor Legate]

Michelin put its hands up and admitted it had a manufacturing problem. The fix was either a chicane to avoid another car slamming into that wretched wall (they dont race against walls anywhere else.....wonder why? Did you see the Toyota hit that thing?) OR to ship over a new batch of tyres. But the FIA sat back and did nothing. For that read: Bernie Ecclestone/Ferrari. He controls the sport and has made a very close pact with the self-absorbed Italian team (who carry on Enzo's legacy of looking after no.1). So although he could have solved the problem by making a sensible decsion BUT that would have upset the Bridgestone runners - sorry, I meant Ferrari.
This has been coming for many years due to the egos involved and underlines why I have not bothered to attend a GP since about 1990ish, when it stopped being a sport and turned itself into a huge money-generating business (B.E. again...)
Dont know what you saw on US TV but the drivers that were interviewed for UK TV were pretty upset. At the end of the day, they only want to race - but would you put your life on the line just for the one race?
If the 'sport' (B.E.) had any decency ( it does not) it would refund all the publics money since it can afford it. It (B.E.) has bled the business dry but has never, and will never, put anything back into it, since the delightful B.E. has already gone on record as stating that the spectators are just a pain in the backside as its the TV viewers he is concerned about. So I voted with my feet and stayed away. Went to watch true enthusiasts racing their own cars in Historic racing. Remember this is the same guy that moved the British GP from July to April knowing full well that it would be a disaster as the car parks around Silverstone are grass and Boy does it rain there in April...!! So he throws a hissy-fit saying that the organisers dont deserve a GP since the car parks were a shambles as everyone got stuck and he used that to try to get out of the long-term contract!!
Its a tragedy but IMHO F1 died about 15 years ago - the corpse keeps twitching and it aint a pretty sight.

[ffindling]

Michelin offered to fly in new tires for their teams, but the FIA insisted on maintaing the rule that requires cars start
on the tires they qualified on. Had new tires been allowed to be fitted, the Bridgestone teams would have protested
and it probably would taken months to
resolve under the FIA's rather slow arbitration proceedure. Bridgestone has been plagued with tire problems all season and there was no expectation that the rules be bent to accomodate them. Bridgestone's reaction probably was <i>what's good for the goose, is
good the gander, </i> so why should be
the rules be bent to accomodate Michelin?
But I think the problem goes much deeper than tires. F/1 teams have been
generally unhappy with Bernie Ecclestone
and FOM. ( Formula One Management)
Their feeling is that Bernie keeps too much of money FOM collects and they
should be paid much more. Bernie has
worked hard to prevent the teams from
defecting to the breakaway GPWC and
no doubt Bernie feels the GPWC once
again rearing its ugly head. The Michelin fiasco gave teams the perfect
opportunity to tell Bernie to shove it.
The sad part of the story is that all
the fans who paid good money to see
a race were denied one and IMS management was powerless to do anything about it. So all the fans and
the race promoters were caught in the
seething warfare between the teams and F/1 management. IMS president
Joie Chitwood III and Tony George
are pondering their next move. I think
they have little choice but to compensate USGP ticket holders in one
form or another. Either a refund or free
tickets to next years event, (if there is
one) or free tickets to either the Indy 500 or the Brickyard 400. In any event,
it will be a big financial loss for them and there is no doubt that IMS will seek
the return of the rather hefty sanctioning fee they paid to host the USGP. Perhaps they'll have second thoughts about ever promoting an F/1 race at the speedway again.

....Fred

[STG]

ffindling,

I agree! I heard tonight that Champ Car is offering to honor USGP tickets at its next race.

Trevor,

I probably hate B.E. as much as you, but beg to differ on B.E. conspiracy theory:

The word on this side of the pond was that B.E. wanted to end Ferrari's domonation of the sport and did so with new tire regulations knowing Ferrari's cars were notoriously hard on tires. That's not a problem if your car and pit crew are fast and you can change tires as often as you want, but ....

I think ffindling's right about the Michelin teams and GPWC.

Oh, about the wall. British drivers like Jim Clark and Nigel Mansel weren't scared of the wall at Indy BEFORE the Safer barriers. What's the matter with the Euro-Weenies of today?

[ffindling]

Stan.....

I might add that Nelson Piquet wasn't
afraid of the wall either. He ran the track
and the wall bit him hard, crunching his
feet and legs much like what happened to
Rick Mears when his Penske went into the
pit barrier at Sanair in the mid 80's. Terry
Trammel and the doctors at Methodist
Hospital did their usual expert job at
putting Nelson back together much like
they did for Mears and Shirley Muldowny,
but it effectively ended Piquet's career.
Piquet simply shrugged it off and said,
"that's racing."

....Fred

[RACER X #99]

If your race tires are wearing out prematurely, make adjustment to your setup, Nascar teams do it all the time and somehow are able to put on competitive 400+mile races weekly. Of course they don't have the computers to deal with either. Maybe if F1 had mechanics setting up their cars instead of computer geeks making adjustments they might be able to put on a competitive show (yes they are shows). When you have 100K plus fans in attendance you are putting on a show.

If F1 wants to learn how to run REAL races maybe thay should contract with the France family to run the program. Tony George took a lesson from Bill France and now owns Open wheel racing in this country.

Not dissing F1 drivers or their equipment, they have the best of both, but F1 is clueless (at least in the US) about putting on a good show for the fans.

You guys can laugh all you want to about Nascar but they own the US racing fan.

Cranky

[STG]

CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF MICHELIN IN INDIANAPOLIS AND THE FIA FORMULA ONE RACE DIRECTOR
19.06.2005


Letter from Representatives of Michelin to Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director:

Saturday June 18 2005
Indianapolis

Charlie Whiting, FIA Race Director and Safety delegate

Dear Mr Whiting

Having analysed and fully evaluated the tyre failures that have occurred over the Indianapolis Grand Prix practice sessions we have been unable to identify a root cause.

The current rules and timescale do not permit the use of an alternative tyre solution and the race must be performed with the qualifying tyres.

Michelin has in the sole interest of safety informed its partner teams that we do not have total assurance that all tyres that qualified the cars can be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 can be reduced.

Michelin very much regrets this situation, but has taken this decision after careful consideration and in the best interests of safety at the event.

We trust that the FIA can understand our position and we remain at your disposal if you want any further information.

Pierre Dupasquier
Michelin Motorsport Director

Nick Shorrock
Director of Michelin F1 activities

Cc:
Bernie Ecclestone
Michelin teams
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)


Letter from Charlie Whiting, the FIA Formula One Race Director, in reply to above letter from Representatives of Michelin:

19 June, 2005

Dear Mr Dupasquier,
Dear Mr Shorrock,

We have received your letter of 18 June.

We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen. As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur. It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.

No doubt you will inform your teams what is the maximum safe speed for their cars in Turn 13. We will remind them of the need to follow your advice for safety reasons. We will also ask them to ensure their cars do not obstruct other competitors.

Some of the teams have raised with us the possibility of running a tyre which was not used in qualifying. We have told them this would be a breach of the rules to be considered by the stewards. We believe the penalty would not be exclusion but would have to be heavy enough to ensure that no team was tempted to use qualifying tyres in the future.

Another possibility would be for the relevant teams repeatedly to change the affected tyre during the race (we understand you have told your teams the left rear is safe for a maximum of ten laps at full speed). If the technical delegate and the stewards were satisfied that each change was made because the tyre would otherwise fail (thus for genuine safety reasons) and that the relevant team were not gaining an advantage, there would be no penalty. If this meant using tyres additional to a teams’ allocation, the stewards would consider all the circumstances in deciding what penalty, if any, to apply.

Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie Whiting
FIA Formula One Race Director

cc: Bernie Ecclestone
Ron Dennis (West McLaren-Mercedes)
Flavio Briatore (Mild Seven Renault F1)
Frank Williams (BMW WilliamsF1 Team)
Peter Sauber (Sauber Petronas)
Christian Horner (Red Bull Racing)
Nick Fry (B-A-R Honda)
John Howett (Panasonic Toyota Racing)
Jean Todt (Scuderia Ferrari)
Colin Kolles (Jordan Grand Prix)
Paul Stoddart (Minardi F1 Team)

Formula One Press Corps

[writerguy]

Originally posted by RACER X #99


If your race tires are wearing out prematurely, make adjustment to your setup, Nascar teams do it all the time and somehow are able to put on competitive 400+mile races weekly. Of course they don't have the computers to deal with either. Maybe if F1 had mechanics setting up their cars instead of computer geeks making adjustments they might be able to put on a competitive show (yes they are shows). When you have 100K plus fans in attendance you are putting on a show.

If F1 wants to learn how to run REAL races maybe thay should contract with the France family to run the program. Tony George took a lesson from Bill France and now owns Open wheel racing in this country.

Not dissing F1 drivers or their equipment, they have the best of both, but F1 is clueless (at least in the US) about putting on a good show for the fans.

You guys can laugh all you want to about Nascar but they own the US racing fan.

Cranky

THEY don't have the issue with G forces on the car that F1 was dealing with as the milk trucks only have to turn left. and are incapable of the speed and stopping abilities in F1
No comparison

but

Well for those who did sit through this debacle thanks for coming out and thanks to the Flying Pig for putting up with such a depressed lot

Also Classic BMW, Boardwalk Ferrari, Ewing Autohaus, and Honda Cars of Mckinney for putting up the door prizes.

[RACER X #99]

So now Nascar is running Milk trucks, well at least when a race is scheduled they do get all 43 milk trucks on track
and at Indy they put on their "show" for 400K plus fans.
That's with 3400 lb cars with tires way to narrow and brakes way to small and yet somehow they manage to get these cars around some speedways in excess of 200mph.

F1 what a joke.

Yesterdays Nascar Nextel Cup winner at Michigan, Greg Biffle, started 25th. With Ford power that most of us have in our Cobras.

Where can I get one of those milk truck engines?

Cranky

[SACoupe]

I cant believe the narrowmindedness of some ppl trying to blame or apportion a part of the blame to the Ferrari and other bridgestone teams.
Racing has rules..............if your car or tyres(or even engine) arent up to scratch, then like FIA suggested, LOWER YOUR PERFORMANCE LEVEL and take whatever result comes with that, i refuse to see why Ferrari who had the right tyres etc ect should be penalised by a chicane for the Ballsup of the others.
F1 is all about points scoring and adhering to the rules, if the FIA allowed new tyres to be brought in and then allowed the teams to race on them without scoring points due to the infraction of the rules, or even allowed the Michelin teams to race but change tyres more often than normal...............I am sure the Fans would have felt that they got their monies worth (yeah RIGHT).
Next we will see the minardi and Jordan teams asking for shorter tracks due to reliablitiy issues?? DUHHHH
there was no solution to the problem which would NOT unfairly disadvantage one side or the other. so Michelin messed up.thats life. If u want to run with the big dogs then u have to stop pissing like a puppy.
i guess if michelin had done their homework the whole thing would have been avoided............... The public should get their money back form michelin the blame lies solely at their door

Congrats to Ferrari and the bridgestone teams on their points

[Cobrabill]

The rule should have been by-passed/ignored for this event as it would have been for the good of the sport.
"The needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few"

Let EVERYONE put on new skins-Bridgestone guys included.

No-one has benefited from this thing.In fact it's been a losing situation for all involved.
Who had the power to avoid it all? FIA. And they chose not to.



Stan-get off the NASCAR thing.I've neve been to a NASCAR race or even watched one.

In fact if you can turn left(or right) you're going too slow.

[SACoupe]

Whatever happened to protection of the minorities, bend the rules because the majority arent up to obeying them. Cmon dude....

Bypassing the rule would not have given the veiwers a proper Grand Prix, instead it would have been nothing more than watching a lot of cars go fast around a circuit............
Bending the rules even once would open a whole can of worms..........

I cannot see the Fairness in forcing the teams who came prepared, to have to change to suit those who werent prepared..................or didnt have up to scracth equipment.............why didnt they start the race and then pit for tyres as and when they needed fresh skins.............incurring the penalties of their actions which is directly proportionate to their failure to be properly prepped for the race.
next time u get involved in a gunfight..........leave your gun at home and bring a knife

[writerguy]

[writerguy]

Originally posted by RACER X #99


So now Nascar is running Milk trucks, well at least when a race is scheduled they do get all 43 milk trucks on track
and at Indy they put on their "show" for 400K plus fans.
That's with 3400 lb cars with tires way to narrow and brakes way to small and yet somehow they manage to get these cars around some speedways in excess of 200mph.

F1 what a joke.

Yesterdays Nascar Nextel Cup winner at Michigan, Greg Biffle, started 25th. With Ford power that most of us have in our Cobras.

Where can I get one of those milk truck engines?

Cranky

OK not to go off on a rant here but

1 F1 cars accelerate (takes Nascar laps to build up speed)

2 Nascar sure 200 mph on an OVAL Look at their road track records and they are dismal

3 Nascar may be able to "put on a show" but they don't have much to do with Racing anymore they are a wonderful example of vertical intergrated marketing but not RACING

4 Carborator or carbon fiber I will still go Carbon on this

5 what happened is a shame because they just shot themselves like CART did the NASCRAP guys are going to be ranting on this for years.

(anyone remember a few years ago when the "Stock" cars had issues with their tires when they FORCED the teams to use Radials? )

[RACER X #99]

Writer,
Please go back and read my first post.
I did not dis the F1 Drivers or their equipment. Both are the best money can buy. It is the F1 organization that does not put on a good show. If your idea of a great race is watching the fastest qualifier distance himself from the rest of the field than you and I differ on what makes an exciting race. Side by side racing with lots of passing or an accasional bump to get by is exciting.

You obviously know nothing of Nascar racing. Yes it does take those restrictor plate cars(425 hp) to get up to speed on the big tracks but on the tracks where they run unrestricted 800 hp, they reach top speed at the end of the longest straight on the first lap. Yesterday at Michigan thay were hitting 204 mph.

I am not trying to convince anybody to like Nascar but if you have never been to a race (tv don't count) you are clueless.

I don't remember Nascar having issues with Radials other than Dale Earnhardt had a tough time getting used to them.
It is good to have a spec. tire in Racing almost every pro series has a spec. tire, prevents crybabies from parking their cars and going home.


PS,
News

20 June 2005
'I would've raced' - DC

David Coulthard says he would have taken the risk and put on a show for Indianapolis' F1 crowd. Red Bull's veteran added: "Did I feel fear on the warm up lap? Not at all. I'm a racer."


Cranky

[flipper35]

Goodyear screwed up at the NASCAR race two weeks ago and some were losing the left front tire. They still raced. The F1 guys could have raced, as was mentioned. They just needed to run the maximum safe speed in the last turn.

I haven't watched a full F1 race since Mansell and Senna were the top names. I don't watch NASCAR religously either. I do think the NCTS is currently the best racing to watch. In person and on TV.

[Cobrabill]

[b]Whatever happened to protection of the minorities, bend the rules because the majority arent up to obeying them. Cmon dude....

Are you for real?Screw the F'ing "minorities."
__________________________________________________ __ypassing the rule would not have given the veiwers a proper Grand Prix, instead it would have been nothing more than watching a lot of cars go fast around a circuit............
Bending the rules even once would open a whole can of worms..........

Catagorically false.And...It can't open a can of worms if there is no more F1 in this country.And this is a realistic possibility.
__________________________________________________ __next time u get involved in a gunfight..........leave your gun at home and bring a knife

What for?I always hit my targets.They're just too numb to know they've been hit.
__________________________________________________ __

This is possibly the hypocritical thread i've ever seen on this forum.
People who like Shelby and own some variation of a Shelby(be it real or replica) argueing FOR OBEYING(stayingwithin) the RULES.

I guess ya'll don't have mirrors in your houses.

[writerguy]

Professional Automotive photojournalist

Have been at many Nascar races usually in the pits

Like watching paint dry even from the pits

When they inforced the Radial tire rule (dozens of years afer you could easliy find a pair of BiasBelted tires at a store) they had many many failures that resulted in the massive crashes at Taladega and otther super speedways. THe Hoosiers were mostly the ones who failed.

If You think F1 has no passing you have not seen a race this year

Granted the last few years has been a high speed parade but at least they don't pull the yellow out when someone has a lead to "clear debris" from the track...

The Crybabies as you put it had to race on ONE set of tires as mandated by the FIA. Bridgestone has a lot of testing time at Indy as they also own Firestone. The safety issue is huge doing 300+ KMPH and having a catastrophic tire failure is not something to take litely. They had sent in a second compound but the hard heads at the FIA refused to allow it.
Both Michelin and FIA have just shot themselves in a showdown. The race fan is the one who suffers.

By the way
the attached shots I took

[ToyCollector]

Michelin was clearly the lead party at fault and as was astutely pointed out by STG, and mentioned last night on SpeedTV, only TWO Michelin drivers did any tire testing at Indy before the race. Bridgestone tested, albeit abbreviated testing due to the diamond grinding/resurfacing schedule. Rules are rules, race preperation is race preperation. Any other series, the decision would have been the same.

The only possible compromise that wouldn't screw the fans would have been to allow for the different tires, but either no points to be earned, or reduced points. Or let the Michelin guys have raced via driver decision, knowing full well a possible calamity awaited in turn 13.

Trevor,

Max Mosley is the FIA person in charge, not Bernie. I agree with your general sentiments on Bernie, but it was an FIA decision, not a F1 promoter decision. Ultimately, Michelin and the teams are the ones that decided to not race. The FIA gave them multiple choices. Again, Michelin and the teams ruined the race.

[RACER X #99]

Writerguy,
Wow a real photojournalist and you have spent many days in the Nascar pits and you still don't like Nascar.

Your not really a race fan.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Writerguy;

If being in the NASCAR pits is "like watching paint dry",then don't go,find something else to take photos of........I've been to a few NASCAR races and have been in the pits also,loved it,have not been to a race in 6 or7 years now,just not that interested anymore,only watch the begining and end of the races on Sunday also(usually fall asleep on my recliner after lunch anyway),my feelings about Cart/Indy cars is the same as your feeling about NASCAR,so I simply do not go to the races or even watch them.....that's what is great about living in the good ole USA,we have choices,don't like it,then just don't go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! regardless,NASCAR has to be doing something right,99.9% of the races are sellouts!!!!!!!!

What's the saying I heard some years ago,"In NASCAR the fans know all the drivers names/numbers,in open wheel racing the drivers know all the fans attending the races by name...." !!!!!!!!!!!!!

David