Need Oil?

[Ed Csoltko]

Since I sold my FFR, I have 18 quarts of 20W-50 Castrol GTX oil I can't use. Anyone in Austin interested, call me at 512-288-0446.

[jetenginedoctor]

To add to this, I'm selling all my Mobil-1 motor oil. Right off the top of my head, I've got two cases (total of 12 quarts) of 20w50. This is the older formulation (from 2002, actually) when they still used PAO (polyalphaolepfin) base stocks in their oil. I'd like $5 per quart, or $50 for all 12.

Reason for selling: I'm using a better oil than Mobil-1 these days (Amsoil) and would rather have that space on the shelf for tools and Cobra parts.

Let me know if you're interested. I can bring them to the "meeting" tomorrow.

BK

[cobraduke]

I'll take all 12 for $50. I'm only at the meet Saturday, March 25, arriving about 9 AM from College Station. I have a red/white striped Excalibur, probably have the tan top up. How can I hook up with you? Thanks.

[barabar]

It is about the zink content in oil. There is only about 4 brands of oil out there that fit the bill. Delo 400 15-40 is the best for the money. If you are runing solids and triple valve springs, after break in check the bottom of the lifter to the cam, if it shows any where (that is where the rubber meets the road) you need to change them and up your zink.
Yes synthetic may give you more viscosity at higher heat( 300+) but if you are runing that hot you have other problems.
AF Morrow

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by barabar

It is about the zink content in oil. There is only about 4 brands of oil out there that fit the bill. Delo 400 15-40 is the best for the money. If you are runing solids and triple valve springs, after break in check the bottom of the lifter to the cam, if it shows any where (that is where the rubber meets the road) you need to change them and up your zink.
Yes synthetic may give you more viscosity at higher heat( 300+) but if you are runing that hot you have other problems.
AF Morrow

Actually, this isn't entirely true.

The API SJ specification did require many oil companies to greatly change the formulation of their oils to reduce the amount of phosphorus because of the concerns of the automobile manufacturers regarding the possibility of phosphorus poisoning the catalytic converters. The makers of petroleum based motor oils had to make more drastic formulation changes than the makers of synthetic oils as synthetic oils rely less on ZDP or ZDDP and other additives to provide the level of wear protection necessary to prevent damage to sliding surfaces within the engine such as flat tappet valve train components.

There is much more to the benefits of synthetic lubricants than being more viscocity stable, better shear resistance, and volitility than refined petroleum based lubricants. Synthetic oils have a tremendously unfair advantage over refined petroleum oils, and the issues discussed here are just the start. Though I'm replacing all the lubricants both in my shop and in my garage at home with Amsoil lubricants, there's nothing at all wrong with the Mobil 1 that I've offered here, and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to run it in ANY engine. In fact, the only reason I haven't already used this oil is because none of my vehicles require an oil this heavy. I build my engines with clearances suitable for SAE-30 oils, and my Cummins diesel runs Amsoil 10w-40 with 25,000 mile drain intervals. You can't do that with Mobil 1, or I'd just run it in the truck.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack. I'll have more oil up for sale here shortly.

BK

[CSX 4027]

Just use Valvoline Race only non street legal. It's all you need. Change it after every 500 miles and you're good to go.
NOT THEIR VRI

[cobraduke]

jetenginedoctor,
And my offer to buy the Mobile1 (12 for $50) at the March meet?

[Gregg(What's his name)?]

We haven't seen you guys in awhile. I hope everything is ok? We missed you and Cathy at the packet stuffing party

Gregg H.

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by cobraduke

jetenginedoctor,
And my offer to buy the Mobile1 (12 for $50) at the March meet?

If I still have it by then, you've got yourself a deal. I've got a couple local people who SAY they want it and will come get it this week. We'll see what they do.

BK

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by CSX 4027

Just use Valvoline Race only non street legal. It's all you need. Change it after every 500 miles and you're good to go.
NOT THEIR VRI

The problem with racing oils is that they are typically not a good choice for a car that sits in storage for any length of time. It's also a poor choice of oil for anyone who's not actually RACING their car. Rodding around a little here and there on the street does NOT constitute a need for racing oil, and it does NOT improve engine performance to use it.

Changing oil every 500 street miles is rediculous. I drive my fun car AT LEAST that far every weekend. Are you saying that after 500 miles, all the goodie is used up? Does that mean I'd have to go through 8 quarts of oil and a $13 oil filter every weekend if I use Valvoline Race oil? If an oil loses it's ability to protect a car's engine after 500 miles of street driving, it isn't worth the bottle it ships in.

BK

[CSX 4027]

A few issues here..
I have spent lots of time on this issue. My partner has been building race engines for 16 years. We have personally done lots of experimenting, testing and researching oils as well talk to the top tech guys at the various companies.
First we need oils that can go one weekend for our dirt track guys that run big and small blocks and are limited to using only flat tappet. The Valvoline is easy to get and cheap but the best part is that it has proved to be the best in this scenario.
Second we need oils for the vintage guys. Cobra's, Corvettes, Jaguars etc that also have flat tappet. After much conversation and susequent testing, we found that most feel that changing their oil often is far less troublesome and costly than pulling their motor and paying for a rebuild.
The Valvoline Race oil will begin to break down after 500 miles due to the lack of stabilizers so as a precaution, Valvoline suggests that limit. But again, that's for racing. On the street I am sure it is fine for longer but again, cheap insurance.
When you are at a bar and you order a Scotch and Soda expecting it to taste a certain way, there is only so much room in the glass for the components Scotch, Soda and Ice. A quart of oil is the same. You can't have everything. A friend used to have a sign. Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick 2. You can't have it all.
The race oils lack detergents and stabilizers but the benefit of the extra additives far outweigh the length they will last given the use in a scrub, flat tappet.
Also, if you use a strong detergent modern oil in an older rebuilt flat tappet now you have other problems. All those years of deposits in the pan and all over the motor will kick loose. The low detergent race oil will not disturb the sludge. Much better.
Also you mentioned sitting in the car being stored.
If you had 100 miles on the race oil and stored the car for 6 months, you could still go another 400 miles. The oil only breaks down when you use it. But, for the heck of it, I take every car that has been sitting, take it out to get everything warm, drain it and replace all fluids anyway.
Back to cheap insurance.

[jetenginedoctor]

I really don't want to argue with you Steve, but you're way off the mark. There is no reason whatsoever for a guy driving a flat tappet ANYTHING on the street to use a race oil and change it every 500 miles.

PERIOD.

I don't know what you or your people are using for filters, what you're using for fuel, or what state of tune these engines are in, but even a flat tappet engine with heavy valve springs should be able to get a lot more than 500 miles between oil changes. Maybe some people think it's macho to use race oil and change it every weekend. Still others see it as wastefull and completely unnecessary. Maybe if you're using a door screen for a filter and you're running some ungodly rich AFR, 500 mile changes make sense. But come on, a car running like that would be fouling plugs and tearing up a lot more than just camshafts.

Anyway, I'm not interested in what your friend knows. I'm more interested in what YOU know. If you've got some technical insight that goes beyond "hey, my friend has been building race engines for 16 years, and he said so. . . ," I'd love to hear it!

BK

[CSX 4027]

No Problem

Want to see what we know or I know, Come to our shop in NJ.
We keep the proof as a reminder of what oils to run.

Every engine builder has lost cam lobes in a flat tappet application at one time or another. Right? I know we have. That's why we do research.

We chart the wear on flat tappet cams with different oils.

We feed our motors what they want not what we want to feed them.

Since you have such in depth experience you must have lost cams as well.
I guess you blame the cam.

Joe Gibbs, Comp Cams, Brad Penn, Valvoline, etc think different and have put out many bulletins. If you haven't seen it in print, here is one
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...l_summary.html

[jetenginedoctor]

I won't dispute that in very EXTREME cases that what you're saying is true. What I'm disputing here, is that you're preaching that everyone run racing oil and drain the sump every 500 miles. THAT, I think is not only a waste, but it's pretty irresponsible.

How many people do you think that are building Cobra replicas (or any other street driven hot-rod for that matter) are building engines that legitimately NEED race oil and 500 mile drain intervals? I would say that anyone putting together engines with cam lobes that aggressive and spring pressures that high and putting them in street cars makes about as much sense as bolting a space shuttle solid rocket booster to a commuter airliner. YES, in a TRUE RACING ENGINE, you need to use a race only oil, and when using alcohol or other corrosive fuels, you've GOT to drain the sump frequently to prevent internal engine damage. But these same engines seldom idle under 2000 RPM, are bolted to stall converters far too loose to drive on the street and/or clutches that are on-off switch binary in operation. How many do I see in cars that are driven on the street? Almost none. The handful of folks I've seen with this type of engine in a "street car" quickly detune the things or change engines in order to make the car livable in the street.

I've had a good number of my customers buy Cup engines and then detune them with milder cams and lighter valvesprings to make them live longer and give them some semblance of drivability. Again, these are RACECAR customers, not street car customers. Only the hardest of the hardcore would want or need something like that in a street car. Frankly, I don't think that most Cobra enthusiasts (or any any other model/maker for that matter) are willing to live with the headaches of a true racecar engine on the street.

YMMV

Anyway, I can't stop you from preaching to people to waste money with race oil and weekly oil changes. At least I can rest well knowing I didn't let you do so unchallenged.

BK

[Gregg(What's his name)?]

This thread is about who wants to buy up some of Ed's oil that he has no use for.
If I have to I will but both of you two in the corner for a time out!

Gregg H

[CSX 4027]

You just don't get it.
The article's don't say race oil for race engines.
They say race oil for all flat tappet engines period.
Irresponsible to dump oil every 500 to save a 25,000 motor? Hardly.
More irresponsible to drive a Cobra kit. A car with no safety that pollutes the air.
Have you considered a Hyundai?
You seem to be a young tekkie guy good at electronics. Teach that.
Were you born by the 60's?

[Gregg(What's his name)?]

What does my birthday have to do with getting you guys to knock it off. This thread is about buying some oil from a fellow TCC member. If I want a lecture about what type of oil I will go back to college.

Now play nice boys!

Gregg H

[CSX 4027]

Happy Birthday.
No need for college.
This is elementary.
I have a 55 gallon drum of 500 Mile Used Race Oil.
Should be good to re-use according to popular opinion.
Anyone want to buy for 10 cents per quart? Come get it..

[Byots]

I used to swear by Mobil 1, but have recently seen a 4 year old 40,000 mile Honda Accord driven by a senior citizen experience worn rod bearings and scuffed cylinder walls (using Mobile 1). Also, my Audi has developed what I'm quite sure is piston slap under certain conditions after 50,000 miles, again using Mobil 1. All new oils that were made to work with catalytic converter equipped cars are crap. We didn't experience these types of problems to such a degree with the oil used years ago when I was a kid, even beating the hell out of my cars.

[CSX 4027]

Mobil One has gone thru many reformulations.
According to our testing and by speaking with them, we have concluded that they used to be great but, during the late 90's and early 2000's they were less than great and many swore off, at and against but now, they are back in the good category. I had 75,000 miles on a F150 5.4 that was clean as a whistle on Mobil 1 changed every 3000 and running strong on the modified Lightning motor with 25000 miles changed every 3000.
On a modern motor, as long as you don't go extended intervals, I am not sure any of todays oils will make a difference plus or minus minutia no matter what they claim. Piston slap and other related issues I would be are more a mfg issue than oil.