uh-oh... carb problems???

[Joe Wicked]

lol.

One other thing to check (don't know if it has been checked) is the fuel filter. I had a problem with a car years ago that would die on a hot day until it cooled off. Once evening came, no problems, once fall came no problems, but every summer it would die repeatedly through out the day. Turned out to be a partially clogged fuel filter. It actually took years to figure it out because when I would try to troubleshoot, I would have plenty of pressure, but on a hot day whatever it was, was expanding and not letting enough fuel through. Just a suggestion.

[Clois Harlan]

Module and Fuel filter are both good candidates for the unexpected shut down and both are fairly inexpensive fixes. You will be fine once you get the car out (in your neighborhood) for an hour or so. I am sure Rob has got you all fixed up this time. You know he had a SEMA project that was top secret that he and Keith were unveiling last week at the show.

By the way did you get your stuff from Jay?

Clois

[hey,littlecobra]

hehe, Clois. yes... I knew about the 'top secret' project. sworn to secrecy, tho'.
stuff from Jay. not yet. Sam sent me an email saying Jay gave it to him on Saturday. So... around and around it goes! I'll find Sam at some point and get it. If not, he can just send it by snail mail! thank you very very very very much! looking forward to getting it.

regarding the 'uh oh carb problem'. hmmmm. I just don't know enough to be able to post here. MSD ignition?? i don't know! I don't think so, tho'.
that's what's part of my frustration with the engine, motor, taking automotive classes thing. I feel like i ought to KNOW this stuff.

not to actually FIX IT myself, but to be knowledgeable.
I might get some driving time in today or tomorrow. this week is much much more manageable than the last 4.

Gary M. happened to be sitting in the office of Rob at KCM in Plano when we were scratching our heads on the phone. Michael, (the phone guy) said to me "i'll just ask the previous owner of your car if he had anything like this happen." I said "no, don't call Gary, I don't want him to think i'm complaining, or anything!" He said, 'he's sitting right here....' So, Michael asked Gary and Gary said it did do it to him, so he and a group took a good while to find it but evidently John Ross did and they determined it was the 'ignition module' of which he gave me a spare when i bought it from him. So.... was the ignition module in the trunk where it belonged??? no.... it was at home in my 'tool cabinet'. (yeah, that little bitty cabinet against the wall with two tools in it, tire gauge, and cleaning cloths)
so.... i gave it to Trish that afternoon and it was put on the next day or two.... all this while they were feverishly working on getting the Terlingua mustang ready.
Anyway.... Gary asked why i didn't call him in the first place. Well.... it's been nearly 4 years and i don't really want to bother him. It might sound like i was complaining or something. I'm not; but i wasn't sure. Anyway, I told him his warrranty ran out after 3 years.
next time, i guess i'll call gary and check. Doesn't hurt, and maybe whatever small problem i encounter he also dealt with.

so. gonna drive it around the neighbor to gain confidence in the repair.

you know, it didn't do it all summer. so i don't know if it is heat related, or if the module just 'went bad'. I don't know about these things.
But... I have a new carb that I'm not SURE 100% I needed, and a bit of confidence shaking that it is or isn't fixed. frustrating!
not trying to play sour grapes here, but just a bit unconfident. I hate that!
I want to know 100% that the car is dependable. I have always been the one that can drive to the track at Hallett from Tulsa and drive it right back. Cruise on and on forever without a problem with temp or anything.
I want to get that confidence back!
oh, btw. the fuel filter and pump were repeatedly checked. I kept thinking it might be the filter as well, per the postings here, but Rob assures me the filter is fine.
the problem is you can't just plug these cars into a diagnostic machine and it tells you what's wrong, like new cars. It's trial and error.
But ya'll know that.

thanks for the suggestions, concern and comments.
much appreciated!

K

[sharpe 1]

If the weather is good, take your cell phone and go drive. I think your module
has fixed it. The MSD ign. box has been known to have those problems that have been described.They get hot and stop, cool off and run till they get hot and stop. You can send it to msd and they will troubleshoot and fix. Good luck and happy driving.

[Jerry Clayton]

Did you happen to fuel up just before this started??? If so, or maybe anyway, completely change the fuel in the car

[hey,littlecobra]

thanks, Sharpe, i'll give it a try! not going to drive far, just around a lot!
it does start up after about 20-30 minutes. And went again for about a mile or two then died.
It did it at the carshow in September. I parked the car in a slot, and decided i wanted to 'clean up' my parking. So just a minute or two after i shut it off, i tried to start it back up and it wouldn't start. Does the engine turnover but never fires up. Decided not to repark and didn't give it another thought. At the end of the show it started right up and i drove many miles back home. No problems. It was two weeks later i drove it up to my kids school to get my daughter, and it is about 5 miles away. Maybe not that far. Anyway, that's when it died, going into the Sonic parking lot. It rolled back out the drive, and I pushed it to the curb. It sat there about 30 minutes or so, and it started right up. Drove about one mile, and it died, just driving down a road, lost power, and i pulled into a convenience store parking lot. Rolled it into the parking lot! Sat about 30 more minutes, started up, and drove it about 1 1/2 miles, and it died again! Just immediately loses power, like you've turned off the key. That was the last time and we just pushed it to that parking lot. trailered it to the shop. yada yada....
Coming home from the shop is about 10-15 miles, and it did fine til AFTER I had stopped for lunch with hubby. After lunch got in to drive home and that's when it died at the intersection. ugh.

None of those days were particularly hot in temp. But are you meaning the car or car part gets hot??
Actually, now that i'm thinking of it, i filled up with a half tank of gas AFTER i left the shop the first time. Left the shop, filled up. Died later.
I have to say, when it dies and you try to start it, it just sounds and smells like it's flooded. I just don't know! Would it smell like gas if it was the ign. module??
Anway the new ign. module is in, and we'll see!
i'll keep ya'll posted.
how in the world would i take out the gas and put in new??
I hate being dumb at this! I don't know how to drain it, or what to put it in.

k

[sharpe 1]

The module circuits get hot in side the box and breaks down. Not the outside temp.
There may be a drain on the fuel tank. If not you will have to pump the fuel out of the tank or siphon it out. The pump is best idea.
The smell of gas is because it is not starting and you have raw gas in the cylinders and out the exhaust

[wtm442]

"I have to say, when it dies and you try to start it, it just sounds and smells like it's flooded. I just don't know! Would it smell like gas if it was the ign. module??"

Any time you mash on the gas pedal once or twice and it does NOT start, it would smell of gas. All the gas is evaporating inside the hot intake/engine and it is rising out of the top of the carb or the exhaust as Sharpe mentioned.

From your description of the problem, it sure sounds like a defective ignition module to me. If it happens again with the new module, you can determine if it is ignition related by removing one of the plug wires and inserting a screwdriver into the plug wire boot so it contacts the metal end of the plug wire. Then hold the metal shank of the screwdriver about 1/2 inch away from a metal part on the engine and have someone turn the key and try to start it (no repeated mashing on the gas pedal). Your hand should be on the insulated handle of the screwdriver, unless you enjoy brief zaps! If there is no spark between the screwdriver shank and the metal part of the engine, the problem is ignition related.

Of course, you should first try this when the engine is running OK so you will recognize a "good" spark, and it will tell you that you are doing the procedure correctly.

One quick plane flight with Turtle in my bag and you would have a house guest that does automotive repair in exchange for driving all of your toys (DO NOT LISTEN TO RON).

Your humble future servant and chauffeur ....

[Excaliber]

Well Kristen your asking yourself the FIRST and most FUNDAMENTAL question when it comes to diagnosing an auto problem. Is it FUEL or SPARK (carb or module). No easy answer, but an important question to narrow down the usual suspects.

Based on the current and past symptoms I would be inclined to go with spark all right, which could be the module, or a myriad of other related items. Looking less like the carb though. This is a tough one, even a really good mechanic will be scratching his head and crossing his fingers.

[Ron61]

Kristen,

I don't know about there but here the auto parts stores carry some very good Chilton books on older cars and motors that go from very basic to completely rebuilding the engine. That might be a place for you to look for a book that would give you some good and simple guide lines about how things work and also they have pictures of the different parts. They have exploded views of carbs, brake systems, etc. also. And one that came with my 69 cobra has several pages of trouble symptoms in it and a list of what could be the cause. Might be something you could look into when you are browsing the parts stores. Mine don't cover anything with the new electronic systems, but I do have books on the Jacobs Pro street which is what I use. But the basic electronic computer module works mostly the same way, no matter what brand it is. The fact it takes yours that long to cool down enough to start again would almost make me think it has to be something in the electronics.

Ron

[Madmiles442]

K,
If you want to take it anywhere, I'm still "between jobs", am available days (guessing hubby's not), and have my trailer in the driveway.
Let me know if I can help.

[tcrist]

HLC,

Years ago we had a car that after it ran awhile and you shut it off it would not restart right away. It had to cool down first. It would crank but would not start. The coil was the culpret. I know everybody says that either the coil works or it doesnt work but this was the way it was on this car. Just something to look at. Hope it is already fixed for you.

Terry

[Excaliber]

I wouldn't advise 'bailing out' on your current technician, unless you think he is grossly incompetant. He now has more experience on your symptoms than the next guy, who would have to start from scratch.

Having said that, sometimes going to the next guy seems to work out rather well. Many times, he just got 'lucky'. He might listen to your story and try the next logical step, as the original mechanic might also have done! Don't assume because the second guy fixed it right away he's 'Mr. Goodwrench', he just took advantage of the first guy diagnostics routine!

[HI Cobra]

Sounds like you had it stopping on you whenever you were in stop and go or slow traffic. Without a lot of air flowing through the engine compartment
it is easy for the module to absorb the heat and once it gets hot it will stop
working. Try the cool damp towel trick if in doubt - it will start after you leave it on for a minute. If that does it you know. Worked for me, no
problems since. When you go for a cruise take a a small towel and a cooler
with some cold water to soak the towel. If the car dies, wet the towel and
put it on the module.

[Excaliber]

Flip I think you have the stock OEM Ford ignition module, which I doubt most folks are running. I would bet HLC has something like an MSD or other after market module. The cool towel trick is a good one, but I've never heard of it working on an after market module. Though they ARE sensitive to heat, cool towel couldn't hurt. It's often recommended to put them INSIDE the car to control heat. The OEM modules get much hotter than the after market style for some reason...

[hey,littlecobra]

I think Rob at Keith Craft Motorsports in Plano is quite competent. I think the problem comes from when he is way way over committed and takes on a 'little case' like mine. He was unbelievably crunched on time getting that Terlingua ready for the photo shoot (the day I dropped it off) and then to load it up and head off to SEMA. He just couldn't concentrate on 'mine.'
I don't particularly blame him, but i do have to question if he was just guessing at the carb or truly thought it was that. The carb has been rebuilt before, maybe twice or who knows how many times, so i don't MIND buying a new carb. But..... if that wasn't it, then what?? Good ideas on the ignition suggestion, can't remember who brought that up in the first place, a few pages back. Maybe Warren?
anyway, if it isn't 'ignition' then what?? keep tracing it down??? that's all fine and good if you know what you're doing, but.... scary and stressful when you're driving down the road and pooof! loss of power. more than once.
Maybe i'll keep test driving it and get confident at it's repair. The december meet is a month away and i can keep driving around my neighborhood every couple of days. today was a beautiful day, 85*, so i took Pepe for a 20 minute neighborhood cruise. I'm sure the neighbors in the neighborhood next to mine were wondering why i kept driving around their circles.

So.... another point is that Rob has several 'certified' mechanics working FOR HIM, and i wonder if he just automatically gives them the cars like mine, with little, irritating problems. I know of two folks who have had issues with their car when they picked it up..... Who is working on the car?? Rob can't do it all. I 'adore' Rob, and trust him, as a Cobra buddy, Cobra mechanic, and almost a 'friend'. I mean that in a good way. He and Trish are nice people that i like.
I appreciate all the comments here, too. thank you!
Some of ya'll's diagnostic ideas sound really simple, but still a bit daunting to me.
Kinda stuck.
Might have to have Warren fly down here, no matter what.
K

[Excaliber]

The thing about a good shop is not so much WHO works on it, it's their ability to bounce ideas off the 'boss' or the other wrenches. When I worked at Ford and Chrysler dealerships as a 'wrench' I was no different than when I worked for 'Joes Garage'. What WAS different was that I had access to:
1. Books and reference materials largel unavailable to 'Joe'.
2. Other wrenches with experience on the specific cars in question.

Hopefully whoever worked on has good communication skills with the other guys around him. Is it fuel or spark? Sounds like that still has to be determined for sure... Cobras are NOT 'high tech' machines, what you need is someone like you got, someone that understands 'old school' not just how to read the diagnostics computer that plugs in to a modern car.

[sharpe 1]

In our discussion I never asked what kind of ign. system you have? Is it a stock system or is it msd or other?
Is the problem solved? still not sure?

[Roush #1]

K,

If the ignition module is an MSD, they (MSD) do make a diagnostic tool that
checks their ignition boxes. I am not sure if it works on other brands of ignition modules.

It takes about 5 minutes to hook it up and check it out.

Jody

[cosbytnkid]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Interesting point HLC, a nieghbor friend of mine (young man, high school) is taking an auto shop class and he asks me questions, brings over his book, helps me work on the car, etc.

Whew, they jumped right into fuel injection, computers, antilock brakes, digital this and that. I'm thinking it's a shame they didn't start with some fundamentals! "This is a piston."

He helped set the POINTS on the Austin Healey and was fascinated they were a 'mechanical switch' instead of electronic.

Oh boy what a hoot! I laughed at your comments Excaliber about mechanical points instead of breaker less points they have nowadays. I can just see it. Now this is called a piston, it's connected to a connecting rod which in turn is hooked to the crankshaft and on and on and on. Heh heh heh I'm still laughing about it. Sounds like they really do need to get back to basics.