Project "Snotty 289" update (long)

[jwoodard]

John,

I like it! Keep those creative juices flowing!

[jrussell]

SNOTTY, SNOTTY, SNOTTY John my boy!
Are you going to need another cam now???
Where will it all end..........Stay tuned, same time, same place...........and only the Shadow knows
John R!

[Jim Jacobs]

I caught him looking at blowers in the Summit catalog.....

[jdean]

Actually I am just kidding.....we are staying with the Holley. Just wanted to see if I could freak Jim J. out a little. But I do like the looks of it.

[Madmiles442]

Gosh, yall crack me up.
Jim looks like a proud new papa in that photo with his carb.
"See my new baby? Her name is Holley. 4 barrels long and she weighed in at 670, can you believe that?"
Unfortunatley, you can see what appears to be the delivery room in the background...

[jdean]

The cam finally came, and we wrenched all day Saturday to get the motor back together. Jim, Steve (my brother), Richard Parker and me all worked on it. One of the things we re-did was the alternator bracket to make a simpler look. I took the old bracket and cut and welded it to change the angle. Looks good, pics later.

We had previously mocked up the heads to check for proper pushrods, which we custom ordered. They needed to be shorter than previous. We also used clay to measure piston to valve clearance, which was over .120 which is plenty.

By Saturday I already had the new heads on and torque'd down. In Jim's car we are lucky we can raise the engine off the mounts enough to clear the chassis and install the cam with the engine in the car.

So we put in the cam, put in new roller lifters, new Scorpion roller rockers, new pushrods new intake and new carburetor.

We then "ran the valves" by adjusting the rockers/lifters to one-half turn past the initial pushrod contact.

We put a little gasoline into the top of the carb and it fired up on about the second try.
It was good we put on a new fuel pressure gauge to give us proof and confidence that fuel was being delivered to the carb.

The idle was way high, so we set it lower and then used a timing light to set the timing. I set it at initial 15 degrees for a start. This gave a max of 35 degrees which was all in by 2500 RPM.

Initial Problems - There was way too much valve noise. We later took off the valve covers to inspect. Most of the lifters were pumped up solid as a rock. No give at all. We let them set for a few hours to see if they would bleed down......they did not, even after sitting all night! This was puzzling, but we figured out a way to safely experiment with them. I took off the passenger side cover and reset the valves on that side to only 1/4 turn vs. the 1/2 we tried. Same noisiness when we started it up. Then I went to the driver side and added 1/2 turn....for a total of one full turn. This time it quieted down a lot. So later I did the same full turn to the passenger side.....noise is all but gone.

One other issue is that the thing does not want to settle into an idle without dying half the time. When you clutch it coming to a stop or slow turn, it tends to die. After setting the idle air bleeds twice, and the curb idle.......it still just does not want to idle, it is either way too high or it dies. I am open to suggestions on this one....brand new Holley 670 Street Avenger. These should be "plug and play".

The good news......it sounds very raunchy, revs instantaneously and pulls like a freight train all the way to high 5,000s. Runs very well pushing it hard through the gears.....just does not want to idle ;-(

We may just for process of elimination put the old 600 CFM carb back on to see if there is better idle behavior.

[SSSammy]

Well .. idle mix, John. Or is the elec choke working correctly? My 4150HP doesn't like to idle till it gets warmed up, but it has no choke. Additional suspects: coil, low battery, just brain storming .. good idea to put the old carb back on, easy to do. Are we gonna see it Sat????

Sam

[Joe Wicked]

I had an old 460 that did the same thing with a new carb. I could not figure it out. Either I would have an idle that was way too high, or it would die. Finally took it back off and exchanged it with another. No problems then. I took the carb back and had to wait for another to come in. I don't know for sure what was wrong, but the guy was not surprised at all when I described my problem with it. Seemed to be a pretty common problem/complaint with Holley Carbs. This was 10 years ago, so I don't know if it relates or not.

[jdean]

Here is a pic of cam going in. Just needed to jack up the engine a bit.





Pic of piston with clay on top. Measured it with the head gasket on and the proper length set up on the pushrod checker. Used only the inner spring. Good clearance, but we had to be safe since we both milled the heads AND went to more valve lift on the cam.

[jdean]

Joe and Sam....thanks for the comments. Richard Parker also suggested I use a can of ether to spray around the intake/carb to see if there is a vacuum leak that cant be seen. I will try that. We also kept the box the Carb came in, so if after fooling with it a bit more there is no change we may just send it back for an exchange.

I was prodding Jim to go ahead and spring for a 650 HP Double Pumper, but he already had the car wired up for electric choke. Anyway the Street Avengers have been getting pretty good "ease of use" marks from what I've read.....but has not worked out for us so far. It actually performs real well once moving, a very slight hiccup in transition and great at WOT. Since it is a light car, standard tranny, I put in the yellow or "light" secondary spring that controls the rate of secondary throttle blade opening to the fastest rate....it seems to respond well to it.

We can always use the old carb as a back up while we sort it out.

[jdean]

Project Snotty 289 is Finished!!!!!!......Well, after another session of warming it up and adjusting, I did get it to idle correctly, and it indeed lives up to its name.....sounds nice and snotty!! Let me know what you think.....hope to see ya'll Saturday......a quick recap of what we did to the ol' 289...

Put on new Edelbrock aluminum heads
Increased compression from 9-1 to 10.4-1 by milling heads off .030
New more aggressive cam.....changed to roller cam
New Roller lifters and Scorpion roller rockers
New Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake
New Holley 670 carb replacing 600CFM

YouTube - Snotty 289 Cobra

[LoBelly]

car looks great and has a sound to match

LoBelly

[SSSammy]

My, my .. does sound snotty And idles, too Reminds me of a P51 at the run-up pad, yes? Well done to you and John!

Sam

[jwoodard]

Good job guys! It has a real snotty sound and I bet it runs as well.

[hey,littlecobra]

nice job, John.
congrats, Jim.
K

[LREYBURN]

It's got rhythm and it sounds like its got a real runny nose. Great job!

[Bwana Snake]

Nice very nice look forward to hearing her Saturday.

Gary

[Chaplin]

Sounds good. Which cam did you wind up putting in it?

[jdean]

Chaplin,

The cam is the Thumpr from Comp Cams. It sounds good but it is also a great performer. For a 289 it is fairly aggressive street/strip specs. Specs at .050 are 228/.535 intake, 241/.515 exhaust with a tight 107 LSA. We are using 1.6 ratio rockers so the lift is actually a bit more.

Idles with about 9" vacuum. Many have the misconception that this is only about sound vs. performance but that is far from the truth as you can tell from the specs. Joe Sherman likes them so that is a good endorsement too. I would definitely use one again.

[Chaplin]

That is a pretty aggressive cam for a 289! I'm actually surprised it pulls that much vacuum, but I guess the hyd roller helps that a bit.