rims and tires

[Detroit Bill]

Originally Posted by zrayr

There are many more original Cobras being tracked on the 15's, and doing very well.

I

What I have said IS accurate because I have witnessed it firsthand, not just at one SAAC race, but several CVAR events as well. I never said the Avons matched up well against "cheap" 17" tires. Those are your words. I personally have seen Cobras (and a lowly Mustang as well) wearing the 15" Avon's completely embarrass Cobras that had very high quality 17" rubber, and good drivers too. The Avon Cobra's were nicely motoring and occasionally drifting around the corners. The Cobras with the 17" wheels were going off the course and spinning out trying to keep up.

If You can't wrap your mind around that happening, so be it. The Avons are that much better than 99% of what is available in the 17" size. There's a lot to learned on the forums, but only if one keeps an open mind and is willing to benefit from the direct experiences of others

As a matter of fact, you do see the 15" Avon CR6ZZ tires on many vintage Porsches, as well As the GT40's and of course the Cobras.

Are there better race tires ? Sure, but they are usually slicks, and none of them are DOT street legal as is the CR6ZZ. But the Avons do have better traction than most race tires you will see on a vintage Cobra, including the GoodYear billboards and the Hoosier's

Z

Have you driven the same car with both sets of tires? If not you do not know, you surmise. There is no doubt that the Avons are good. But there appears to be no doubt in your mind that the larger diameter tires are not good.

Avons are an 80 tread wear. They are a race tire that got DOT approved. Most of the 17's and 18's are 200. You have to get to a DOT approved race tire to have a fair comparison. Like a Nitto NT01. BUT those tread wear ratings come with compromise. Like not lasting long, perhaps not great in the rain, cracking when driven in the cold, heat cycling out, throwing stones up on the fender lips....

So what have we learned, the Avons are great except for the compromises you accept when you get them.

The larger diameter tires are great except for the compromises you accept when you get them.

I think one could say that a larger diameter tire with equal traction would be superior due to the smaller sidewall. But am sure that would cause a debate also.

There is no one answer it depends on what the end user desires.

[zrayr]

I like big tires. I like smaller 15" tires. I never met a tire I didn't like.

You hit the nail on the head. The 15" Avons have a tread wear of 80. That compound allows them to compete rather nicely with the larger diameter wheeled cars. That's all I am saying. And they let drivers compete with the racing only tires that are not DOT approved for street use. They are expensive, my personal experience is they wear out in 15,000 miles . Every tire has limitations and compromises.

On vintage cars I like the vimtage look. Some people could care less about that. For them there many choices. For the guys with my tastes, there are fewer, but nevertheless excellent choices. From my narrow point of view, the Avons let me have my cake and eat it too. I can live with a shorter tire life if it lets me blast by the 17" naysayers in the corners. It's a trade off I love.

Z.

[Joe's Garage]

I look to the cobra replica builders who offer purpose built cobras for the track.
XCS 427 is arguably the most race ready replica you can buy, no expense spared for achieving the best handling possible, looks like 18" rims to me. XCS Designs

JBL Motorsports is another one with cutting edge suspension and chassis designed for serious track competition, looks like maybe 17" rims there. JBL Motorsports - Home Page

I don't doubt that the Avon CR6ZZ is probably the best rubber you can get for grip on a 15", I also don't doubt the engineers behind XCS and JBL picked 17-18 rims for a compelling reason.

Given equal drivers with comparable cars and rubber, I'll go with the larger wheels every time, look at the road course population across the board by class and see what they run, they all can't be wrong

We all get the vintage look argument, 15's are right for the cobra. But to spin your decision there into a case where you can also blast by the 17" guys in the corners is quite frankly laughable, not so if you are talking about equal drivers with similar cars and race rubber.
Joe

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

"....We all get the vintage look argument, 15's are right for the cobra. But to spin your decision there into a case where you can also blast by the 17" guys in the corners is quite frankly laughable, not so if you are talking about equal drivers with similar cars and race rubber.
Joe

It is laughable. However, it was I, and few Cobra drivers sporting the Avons , who were doing the laughing. The 17" guys who tried to keep up with us were picking the hay bales out of their teeth, and not laughing.

I don't need to make any converts for me to know what I have already experienced.

Sorry guys, I just have to believe my lying eyes, and not the bench racers this time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Z.

PS. Here's the first Cobra I rode in, September 1965. I was 14. I'm pretty sure it didn't have Avon tires....

[Detroit Bill]

What brand and model were the 17" tires?

[zrayr]

I was not in a position to know anything specific . Sorry

Z.

[frankym]

hey 1985 CCX, I was told to check out your car because you did the rollbar mod to your contemporary that i wanted to do. I modified my rollbar to look like the CSX, and now I finally see your car, they look like twins with the wheel centers in hertz gold!

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by zrayr

It is laughable. However, it was I, and few Cobra drivers sporting the Avons , who were doing the laughing. The 17" guys who tried to keep up with us were picking the hay bales out of their teeth, and not laughing.

I don't need to make any converts for me to know what I have already experienced.

Sorry guys, I just have to believe my lying eyes, and not the bench racers this time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Z.

PS. Here's the first Cobra I rode in, September 1965. I was 14. I'm pretty sure it didn't have Avon tires....

So you have no actual proof. Just what you THINK. Like the drivers of the cars have no influence on the outcome. In your mind, the tires are the only thing different and that was it.

Wow...you need to go on a visit to the numerous car manufactures and tell them of your discovery! I am sure Porsche, Ferrari, and just about EVERY OTHER car manufacturer would love to hear your theory on how a measly 15" tire on any one of their high performance street and racing cars will make them handle much better. You can tell them that a few times in your life, you rode in a car with 15" tires that outhandled everything. I am sure they would love to hear how they probably spent billions of dollars on developing cars and suspensions and all they had to do was throw a set of 15" tires made by Avon on their cars to have world handling performers.

When they are done laughing at you, come back and let us know. We all want to hear the stories.

[zrayr]

Proof ? I said a car with 15" wheels did, and could beat a similar car with 17" wheels around a corner. That's all. I saw it happen, and enjoyed every minute of it.

When one of the "hay baled" Cobra driver comes over to us and tells us he's ditching his set of expensive $2,000 17" racing tires and getting a set of Avons, well, that's good enough for me.

But I know that is just fantasy to you guys. How can you see to type when you head is so far up there, I just don't know.

Z

[1985 CCX]

Frank
Your car looks great.

[frankym]

Its like a mirror image. Same to you! My last cobra was a ccx. The roll bar on my ccx looked like SPF also. Yours is spot on!

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by zrayr

Proof ? I said a car with 15" wheels did, and could beat a similar car with 17" wheels around a corner. That's all. I saw it happen, and enjoyed every minute of it.

When one of the "hay baled" Cobra driver comes over to us and tells us he's ditching his set of expensive $2,000 17" racing tires and getting a set of Avons, well, that's good enough for me.

But I know that is just fantasy to you guys. How can you see to type when you head is so far up there, I just don't know.

Z

Like I said in the beginning. Baloney. You were full of bs then and apparently, you still are.

Did you call GM yet? I'm sure they would love to hear a way to make their new Corvettes handle better! It would probably save them a couple grand going with 15" tires. Maybe you can talk them in to putting 26.5" tires on a 13" rims? Bigger sidewalls would probably handle even better! LOL...fool.

[Luke427]

Hi,

17" may handle better (and to be honest I've tracked quite a bit and am still not totally convinced about how much, as chassis setup correctly tuned and tire compound have more to do IMHO) however I really like the look and feel of the big fat 15"

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by ender2664

Can you please post pics of your car and its' rims along with the size, where you got them and how much they cost?
I really have not seen many pics of a shelby with anything but the cobra rims, which are pretty expensive, and would like to see what the car looks like with different rims.
I also want to put the fattest rim and tire combo possible on the rear so i have a good amount of traction.
If you could also tell me what size, brand tires you use, and cost that would be great too.
I just ordered my rolling chassis and would like to have some rims and tires to bolt on so that the car is sitting on all fours when it gets here.

Ender2664 -
The only reason to buy 17 or 18 or anything other than a 15 is because you prefer the look. Not because your car will perform better. 15" Avons will stay with any high performance street tire of any rim size that will fit on a Cobra, all other things being equal. This is my experience with many, many track miles on a half dozen different road courses. If you want the vintage look you can have your cake and eat it too.

PS - Rethinking. If you are going to race competitively, and need to squeeze every last drop of performance from every place possible in your car, then probably 17s would be a better choice...BUT...I maintain that any difference is so minor and at the bleeding edge of the cars performance limits that 99% (surely me) of the track enthusiast readers here would not have the skill level to realize the difference. Avons kick ass.

[scootter]

I like the way my new PS2's hook up compared to the Pilots!!
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[Dwight]

I think the love of 17" 18" 19" rims and tires has a lot to do with the larger rotors they can use. Better brakes.

Americans suffer from what I call the "Cadillac syndrome" bigger is better.


I think the car industry is selling bigger is better. If 10" brakes are good then 11" or better, 12" are lot better and 22" are fantastic.
Same thing applies to tire size, motor size, hp numbers, etc

Now a 2100 to 2500 lbs Cobra might not need larger rotors. Just a better rotor.

Tires, tire size, brakes, weight of car, etc all play into the performance on the street or track. And then there is the driver!

Dwight

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by Dwight

>>> And then there is the driver!<<<

Dwight

You honor, I rest my case... :-)

Have fun and be safe!

[scootter]

Americans suffer from what I call the "Cadillac syndrome" bigger is better.

Dwight[/quote]

Hmm, My Cadillac Escalade only has 17" wheels and tires. I didn't know they made bigger ones!!

Scott

[Dwight]

Oh come on Scott. My Focus has 17"

[scootter]

Seriously!! I like the stock rims that came with it. I prefer tires to be under my car, not rubber band!!


I guess I should have mentioned it is only an 2004 with only 80k miles!